Jawaan McClellan NOT named to the Roundball Classic...

[WayneNewton]

... WTF, man. They got Afflalo on there along with Gabe Pruitt? I know those two are good but they are not Jawaan good.

I know the RC is nothing compard to the honor of being named to the McDs game so I hope Jawaan gets his honor and is not snubbed again.

[Josh Gershon]

He probably turned it down or is going to another event instead.

[auti]

Afflalo are you kidding me, seriously your kidding me right! I witnessed Jawann tear him up on the court in Pangos. Who are these know nothing fools if I had 5 minuets with them...:mad: I hope Jawann turned them down it would be the only thing to make any sense of this mess!

Jawann is number 1

[Lamb17]

Of course they all mean JAWANN. Much love buddy, even if your fans can't spell your name right!

Psst...come on, ya'll need to remember he might read this!

[WayneNewton]

I know Duke fans who can't even spell Krzysewski (sp?), hence the reason they all call him K.

Just because we can't spell doesn't mean we're not pumped for his arrival.

[RubenD]

Jawann was on a Nike AAU team. The Roundball Classic is sponsored by Adidas.

You'll probably see Jawann at the Jordan Classic (Nike's version of the same event).

[11Banners]

Yeah, that horrible Afflalo, who put in 38 and 43 points, with 10+ boards the in the past month! The world can only wonder how myopic a kid from Ben Hansen/Auti will be. Ben "I think every Arizona player is the greatest," and then his brilliant girlfriend who probably believes Hansen that Jawaan M. is the best player of the 2004 class.

[AZCat Man]

11Banners, I wouldn't be offended by the views of our fans. What would expect when you come to our board? Believe me there are plenty of UCLA fans who think all UCLA recruits and players are Phi Beta Kappa and god's gift to the sporting world. The one UCLA fan I am thinking of is the same guy who said about UCLA football team two years ago, "we have no weaknesses". Wow! Now that's a fan. Only time will tell how these recruits turn out. I will say you've got some great talent coming to Westwood next year and it will be interesting to see them develop under Howland.

[TheCat]

shouldn't you be helping your coach, 11 banners. He might need some help making the tourney this year. That's the PAC-10 tourny by the way.

[MrBug708]

Pot? Kettle?

Then again, we dont have 4 Wooden Candidates, a HOF coach, and a loss to Washington on our mark do we?

... WTF, man. They got Afflalo on there along with Gabe Pruitt? I know those two are good but they are not Jawaan good.

What's Jawann good?

[Flipper]

TC,

The Bruins will make the Pac tourney. We at least have the Devils and the Beavers along with SC below us.

By the way, how do you like the fact that the Bruins and Cats are tied in league at the moment. I know its not going to last very long but I do find THAT ironic.

Good luck this week-end. Hope you guys beat the Trojies!!!!

[Intermezzo]

Not sure what all the incredulity is about... Most polls have AA and JM ranked pretty close to each other....

[WayneNewton]

Originally posted by MrBug708
Pot? Kettle?

Then again, we dont have 4 Wooden Candidates, a HOF coach, and a loss to Washington on our mark do we?



What's Jawann good?

But you do have a loss to Washington St. along with a 25 point drubbing by the Cats on your home floor. How's that for 4 Woodens and a HOF?


As for Jawann good - ask your boy Afflalo what I mean, Jawann tore him up.

[MrBug708]

Tore him up huh? I'm listening.....

[auti]

Originally posted by MrBug708
Tore him up huh? I'm listening.....

As a matter of fact he did, at Pangos anyways. I saw it along with Ben, Josh, Newport, and Wildcattmatt

...Jawann shot, scored, dunked, passed, rebounded, played defense and didn't say a word to AA while AA shot, missed, didn't play D, didn't get his teammates involved and yet talked trash relentlessly while losing by 25 points. It showed how much class Jawann had over AA. Not to mention AA also said that "Arizona is a nothing school". Coming from a future UCLA player HA! I have respect for UCLA, well I will next year because of Farmer, but that being said this last summer is a joke!

[WildcatPaulG]

Even Nic Wise cooked AA on that Pangos tape...

[Flipper]

Saltlake,

Nice pictures of Arizona athletes. Let me see, Luke Walton is a son of a Bruin(who had 2 NC's along with another Final Four), Randy Johnson is a Trojan, and so forth and so on.

If I show you SI's collection of LA athletes, the server will go down due to a lack of memory.

Nice recap of every meaningful Arizona athletic achievement.

[TheCat]

You should be thankful that Lute gave Benny boy a break because he is a new coach in the league. If Lavin was still your coach, Lute may have topped the worse loss in Bruin History with a worse spanking this year.

It might not be so easy to call off the dogs at McKale but feel free to post on Sunday how you think you see real progress in that team of yours. And please don't tell me wait till Ben has his own boys. Lute didn't use that excuse and niether should Ben. By the way, if Lute had your team they would finish at least 3rd in the PAC......

I would bet money S. Polk would out rebound both your 7ftrs.

[Intermezzo]

Originally posted by TheCat
If Lavin was still your coach, Lute may have topped the worse loss in Bruin History with a worse spanking this year.

That sounds hillarious considering Lute got embarassed by Lavin the last time they played. LOL

BTW, Ben does not make any excuses and I wouldn't expect Lute to either. :)

[Intermezzo]

Originally posted by Flipper
Nice recap of every meaningful Arizona athletic achievement.

He forgot to include Emmitt Smith's signing with the Cardinals.... Considering how sad of a history they have...this is significant!!

[Ben Hansen]

When was LA's last non-Laker accomplishment anyway?

And don't say USC all you UCLA fans!

PS: LA = 20 million people at least.

State of Arizona = 5.5 million total.

This is like the 5A vs. 2A debates.

PS2: Learn to swim.

[Intermezzo]

Originally posted by Ben Hansen
When was LA's last non-Laker accomplishment anyway?

Oh yeah, you really got us there! :rolleyes:

Tommy Maddux and the XFL babee. hehe :)

[AtlantaWildcat]

Not that I could careless about this debate but does Anehiem count? Didn't the Angels win the WS 2 years ago.

[Ben Hansen]

Originally posted by AtlantaWildcat
Not that I could careless about this debate but does Anehiem count? Didn't the Angels win the WS 2 years ago.

No. Orange County vs. LA County. 45 minute drive up the freeway(s), too.

[DavidImmel]

there aren't 20 million people in L.A. Cut that number in half and then you'd be close at least. I don't know how this came to an Arizona/Los Angeles discussion....but that would be quite a short one. Your hockey team's never won a playoff series; your basketball team has never possessed an actual Center; your baseball team, while having a nice farm system, won't win 90 games this fall, and is on the downside of a one year success story; and your colleges have offered the country Barry Bonds, and one national championship in basketball. Compare your state to Colorado...its more appropriate.

P.S...The Cat, I saw Hassan Adams, among other regulars, on the floor with two minutes left in a 25 point game in Pauley, just like I saw an alley oop thrown to him last year in a 35 point game with a minute left in McKale...Olson would never 'go easy' on UCLA...it isn't in his nature. Check out the tape of the Oregon State game from three weeks ago, it'll give you a point of reference as to what that expression means.

[CourtCat]

di you forgot about the cards...how could you forget?

fyi the dbacks i think won two nl west crowns and a wild card in their first five years, i don't think that can be so easily discounted.

as for colorado, they may have both az and la's number with the broncos and av's winning at least four chamionships between them in the last 10 years...

[DavidImmel]

The Cardinals don't even exist, man.

[Catstatic]

They are only the worst professional franchise in the history of, well, professional franchises!

We deserve something having to put up with this team year in and year out here in the Valley of the Sun. Give credit where credit is due, Immel.

[TheCat]

Dave,

LA's football team is not that ......oh never mind. Let's see...you have the raiders, the warriors, the dodgers, the bruins........a bunch of losers.........

Hey Dave when Ben has the greatest team in history you can run up the score. It is hard to put in the second string when you only have two bench players.

Half of your players don't even listen to your coach. Thompson is the perfect example.

However you do have those remarkable academic standards that TJ outlined for us a few weeks back. Now that that myth is shattered what will you say. Let see.... Tucson is a dump and LA is great......well that is enough for now.

[TheCat]

The worse professional franchise is the Clippers. Don't be trying to steal it with the cards.

[Ben Hansen]

Dbacks won the NL West THREE (3) times in their first six years of existence (1999, 2001, 2002).

No one has ever done that before and I don't think it will happen again anytime soon.

Fastest ever to reach the playoffs (second year), to win a pennant (fourth year) and World Series (fourth year).

Four Cy Young winners thanks to Randy Johnson, over a dozen all-star appearances, and plenty more.

I'd say the Dbacks are an extremely good pro franchise.

Surely not as good as the Dodgers though, right? :rolleyes:

[azhoops]

If you want to say that LA has 20 million people, you have to include Orange County in the metro area- and it would still probably be an overestimate. The Cardinals are worse than the Clippers...

Go D-backs!

[DavidImmel]

The Cat...Pardon me, but get your head out of your ass. Don't know if you picked up on this or not, but last week three prized football recruits had to decommit from UCLA because they didn't meet the academic standards the school imposes. These players, however, immediately were eligible for other Pac-10 schools whom they quickly signed with. Now, how can that be? Huh? According to you, it is a 'myth' that UCLA has a high level of academics. According to me, you are a fool who doesn't know what he's talking about.

UCLA Academics: Average Incoming Freshman...4.24 GPA, 1337 SAT.

All you need to do to get into Arizona is get better than 1120 on your SAT, and have higher than a 2.0 GPA.

"It is hard to put in the second string when you only have two bench players." Then who are all those opaque kids sitting with the rest of the team? They must have busted past security to get on the floor with seven minutes left in the Oregon State game.

BTW, the Warriors and Raiders play in the Northern part of the state, o' knowledgeable one.

Ben, the D-Backs are fine, and all of their fans are lucky that they have an owner who is willing to go out and spend money. I like the Dodgers, but have always pulled for the Angels, personally. You nor anyone else can compare the sports in Southern California with anywhere else in the country. You say, "not including the Lakers....or USC," which eliminates 3 NBA Titles in the last 4 years, and 3 National Championships in the last six months respectively. The Angels won the W.S two years ago, the Ducks were in the Stanley Cup Finals last season, UCLA won 4 National Titles in the last calendar year....Good luck trying to find another place which has enjoyed that kind of winning (ever) in such a short span of time anywhere else in the country.

[ByJoveByJingle]

this got turned into an AZ vs LA thread (oh the absurdity of it) because a UCLA fan could not think of how to respond to the fact that Afflalo was apparently Punk'd at Pangos by McClellan. Instead he resorted to eternally effective, tried and true, "Oh yeah . . . well, my Dad can beat up your Dad" approach.

By the way, LA county has nearly 10 million residents--of course that doesn't include illegal aliens which probably bumps the number up to about 13 million.

[Auercat]

The 5 county area (Los Angeles- 9 million, Orange-4 million, Ventura- 1 million, San Bernadino 2- million, Riverside-2 million) is about 18 million people, so Ben was close. Only the snot balls in Orange County and in Ventura County (where I live) tend to disassociate themselves with the rest of Los Angeles.

Hansen, The Dodgers have been down, but they are still the benchmark of the west, not mention the entire National League. Only St. Louis compares when one talks tradition, attendance, hall of famers and pride. The D-backs are nice for a new franchise, but they're still a one championship wonder to this point. Oh, that's right it gives them one more championship than Frisco!!!! Pobrecito NCC. :(

Bearing Down on The Clippers Being The Worst of All By Far

Auercat

[BallinestCat27]

One of my teachers went to fUCLA and was 3rd string quarterback for 2 years I believe behind Bennet. He got in with something in the low 900s i believe on his SATs. He played HS football for Westlake High.

[MrBug708]

Dodgers are a lot like UCLA. Tons of traiditon, A title in a somewhat recent memory, but a poor owner (AD) and a piss poor GM (Malone) set them back

TheCat, for someone who hates SoCal so much, maybe you shouldn't live here? Since it probably seems you go through the day with someone pissing on your cherrios.

...Jawann shot, scored, dunked, passed, rebounded, played defense and didn't say a word to AA while AA shot, missed, didn't play D, didn't get his teammates involved and yet talked trash relentlessly while losing by 25 points. It showed how much class Jawann had over AA. Not to mention AA also said that "Arizona is a nothing school". Coming from a future UCLA player HA! I have respect for UCLA, well I will next year because of Farmer, but that being said this last summer is a joke!


And here I thought Ben said they were friends? Or was Ben lying from before?

[MrBug708]

Originally posted by BallinestCat27
One of my teachers went to fUCLA and was 3rd string quarterback for 2 years I believe behind Bennet. He got in with something in the low 900s i believe on his SATs. He played HS football for Westlake High.


Me thinks you should go back and read what was written and not associate student body with the average incoming football player. Not even Stanford's incoming freshmen has the same GPA and SAT score as the BB players do.

[MrBug708]

Originally posted by Ben Hansen
When was LA's last non-Laker accomplishment anyway?

And don't say USC all you UCLA fans!

PS: LA = 20 million people at least.

State of Arizona = 5.5 million total.

This is like the 5A vs. 2A debates.

PS2: Learn to swim.


What non-Diamond back thing has Arizona done? If you rule out Lakers, we'll rule out the D-Backs.

You got nothing....

[ByJoveByJingle]

I can kick my 3 year old nephew's ass. He can't even go 1 round with me. In fact, I bet I could tie both hands behind my back and still drop him in 2. He's got nothin' . . . !!!!!!!

[DavidImmel]

BJBJ, let me speak on behalf of Bruin fans everywhere. I was not there to see the Afflalo/McClellan match-up, but my roommate was there, and Ben was there, and they have both told me that it was ugly. I have seen McClellan play, and he is something special, believe me. He will be a fantastic player in the Pac-10, and is someone Arizona fans should look forward to seeing up close. I have also seen Afflalo play, watching him drop 43 at the Dream Classic in L.A against very good competition. My conclusion is this: they are both very good players already, and will only get better as they are schooled by two of the better coaches on the west coast. One game doth not make a reputation, and just because Afflalo struggled against McClellan, doesn't really mean anything to me. Let the kids get into college and just play the game, it'll all come out in the end. Ben seems to be moved by the idea that both Afflalo and Josh Shipp struggled against Jawann, while that really doesn't do anything for me. Mike Bibby has faced Memphis four times this season, and was shut down and severely outplayed by Earl Watson on three of those occasions (sticking w/the genre), does that mean anything...absolutely not. Patience, everyone.

[ByJoveByJingle]

I believe you. Every game has a different set of variables with a different end result. This is why I still think we can beat Stanford the next time, when the evidence says we can not.

I was just responding to people who started an argument, were trumped in the argument and, therefore, felt the need to turn it into an even more absurd argument. Anybody want to debate if the U.S. Military could successfully invade Madagascar? I'm up for it . . .

[Irish27]

DI and any other Dodger fan out there. I will bet you the Diamondbacks will have a better record than the Dodgers this year. I believe the NL West is not that strong and the Diamondbacks will win the division.

The Diamondbacks have definitely upgraded their hitting with the addition of Sexson and I think Casey Fossum can win 12-15 games. Johnson and Webb are a solid 1-2. The key is RJ staying healthy.

Losing Schilling hurts but Curt was hurt a lot last year and the Diamondbacks won with the young guys. There are a lot of talented young pitchers coming up in the next few years and also some good bats. Watch out for former CDO player Scott Hairston. This guy could really blossom into something special but he needs to stays healthy.

My NL West predictions:
1)Arizona
2)San Diego
3)Los Angeles
4)San Francisco
5)Colorado

The Dodgers have one of the best relief pitchers in the game but if they can't score he can't help them. I think if the Dodgers can acquire some bats I would put them up at the top with the Diamondbacks but right now I see them as the third best team.

I think the team on the downslide is the Giants. Losing Ponson and Aurillia, plus losing Nen for another year is a blow to the Giants.

[TopCat]

I'm not contesting your assertions about the requirements of incoming UCLA players.

I'm only asking how Jelani McCoy passed those requirements. Does UCLA have a certain waver for scowling shot blockers, or was that a Harrick thing?

I've heard McCoy speak. Complex sentences do not appear to be one of his gifts...

[NorCalCat]

Benchmark of the west...LOL

Let's compare:

Hall of Fame:

Los Angeles:4 (add one for Tpmmy Fatsorda if you must but he's not a player)

San Francisco:5(Don't make me go back to New York, because it's ugly)

Tradition:

You'll have to show me how to measure that, but I'd guess that with Mays McCovey Marichal, a boatload of postseason wins, the Giants matchup fine with anyone there

Attendance:

Umm yeah.....the Giants have led the NL in attendance the last 3 years. San Francisco is a way more of a baseball town than LA, and once a decent ballpark was built, the numbers have borne this out.

Pride:

Who on earth would be proud of the sleazy, horrible, underachieving Dodgers. They are simply an afterthought of a franchise in the modern baseball arena.


Sucks for LA. But you can always drive 45 minutes(traffic permitting) to go see the Angels.



Originally posted by Auercat
The 5 county area (Los Angeles- 9 million, Orange-4 million, Ventura- 1 million, San Bernadino 2- million, Riverside-2 million) is about 18 million people, so Ben was close. Only the snot balls in Orange County and in Ventura County (where I live) tend to disassociate themselves with the rest of Los Angeles.

Hansen, The Dodgers have been down, but they are still the benchmark of the west, not mention the entire National League. Only St. Louis compares when one talks tradition, attendance, hall of famers and pride. The D-backs are nice for a new franchise, but they're still a one championship wonder to this point. Oh, that's right it gives them one more championship than Frisco!!!! Pobrecito NCC. :(

Bearing Down on The Clippers Being The Worst of All By Far

Auercat

[NorCalCat]

I think the team on the downslide is the Giants. Losing Ponson and Aurillia, plus losing Nen for another year is a blow to the Giants.


Nen will be ready by April.

Ponson won like what 5 games in the second half for the Giants?

Losing Aurillia sucks, but he really only had one good year at the plate. Perez might not hit for power, but he'll cover more ground at short. We will miss Richie's clubhouse presence though.


Still waiting for the D'Backs to catch the Giants now that Johnson is back.....LOL

[ByJoveByJingle]

Baseball. Is this really the "national pastime"? Can a sport really be a sport when it is called a "pastime"? Can a sport really be a sport when David Letterman calls one of the dominant players a "fat tub of goo"?

[Irish27]

"Still waiting for the D'Backs to catch the Giants now that Johnson is back.....LOL"

Funny how you mention the word "catch." Maybe if Jose Cruz Jr. catches that routine flyball against the Marlins they might of actually gotten past Florida in the playoffs.

I find it funny how Giant fans take shots at the Diamondbacks. The Diamondbacks already have a World Series title, how many do the Giants have since they have been in San Francisco?

Finally, it will be interesting to see how many homeruns Barry hits this year now that they will be actually testing for steroids and mentioning who comes up positive.

[SCCat]

Originally posted by MrBug708
Pot? Kettle?

Then again, we dont have 4 Wooden Candidates, a HOF coach, and a loss to Washington on our mark do we?


hahaha. hahahaha. stones? glass houses?

washington state? at home?

hahahaha.

[MrBug708]

Originally posted by SCCat
hahaha. hahahaha. stones? glass houses?

washington state? at home?

hahahaha.

A day late, a buck short

[Flipper]

NorcalCat,

How the hell did we get to this subject?

You can't be serious, comparing the Giants to the Dodgers. Look at their records since they came out west. The Dodgers have won 5, count them, 5 World Series in LA. They also have lost several times since they went West. The two times with the A's and the 2 times with the Yanks. Heck, since I arrived in LA in '73, the Dodgers have played 6 times in the Series. Six times in 31 seasons. I know, its been awhile but still.....

Meanwhile, help me count the number of Series won by the Giants. A big fat ZERO. Heck, I only remember a couple of World Series losses, the earthquake series loss to the A's and the 1 against the Angels. For many years they couldn't draw a million at that hellhole, Candlestick Park. I'm afraid that the Giants' run has ran its course, and they'll come back to the middle of the pack. I'll grant you that they won't be at the bottom year in and year out. What will you guys do once BB is gone. Good luck!!

[11Banners]

Why do Arizona fans try and attack UCLA's academics? This is like a Red Sox fan attacking the Yankees about world championships. UCLA's incoming freshman class - GPA 4.24 1330 SAT score. Berkeley's incoming class has a 4.25 GPA and 1330 SAT score.

In terms of athletes, UCLA and Notre Dame have the toughest standards after Stanford.

[11Banners]

Here's an interesting fact Norcal omitted from his diatribe

The Giants have 0 titles. None. Zip. Zilch. Remember, 9 more outs against that other SoCal team - the Angels.

[NorCalCat]

The Dodgers have won 5, count them, 5 World Series in LA.


Yeah but you probably missed the last one while playing with your rubik's cube and listening to Wang Chung on the Walkman.

Saying the Dodgers are the "benchmark" of the west is like saying that USF is a college basketball power.


Ancient History

[ByJoveByJingle]

until you post empirical evidence about the "average" athlete's GPA and SAT scores at UCLA vs. UA or any other institution, I will continue to ignore your statements about the "average" student, about whom I couldn't give a sh*t.

[NorCalCat]

Puhleeze......

Funny how these guys like McCoy and Rush and patterson, etc, etc., forget all those study habits they picked up in high school when they get to college.

Everyone knows that UCLA hoops gets a free pass for every high-profile recruit that they want to don the baby blue. The fact is that not one Arizona basketball player couldn't have been a Bruin if the coaches wanted him bad enough.


Originally posted by 11Banners
Why do Arizona fans try and attack UCLA's academics? This is like a Red Sox fan attacking the Yankees about world championships. UCLA's incoming freshman class - GPA 4.24 1330 SAT score. Berkeley's incoming class has a 4.25 GPA and 1330 SAT score.

In terms of athletes, UCLA and Notre Dame have the toughest standards after Stanford.

[BibbysTowelDude]

Dude Wang Chung is the ultra jam!

[11Banners]

Are you frickin' kidding me Norcal? UCLA could have anyone? UCLA has lost numerous football recruits to Oregon, Arizona State, and USC this past season alone because of academics. We lost 2 recruits to Oregon State because they could not get passed admissions, one to ASU, and 4 in the past 2 seasons to USC.

UCLA's standards are above the NCAA minimum. That's a fact, and that's why it will be very interesting if Amir Johnson will be recruitable for UCLA.

[ByJoveByJingle]

If you read my post, you will find no hint of me suggesting that "anyone" can get into UCLA Athletics Branch. Arizona's standards are above the NCAA minimum, also. BFD. That's like saying, "I've got more groove than Tiger Woods." Who doesn't?

Edit: Got it . . . sorry about that. I obviously don't have enough to do with my time.

[11Banners]

ByLove, I accidently put your name instead of NorCal. I edited the mistake.

[Flipper]

NorcalCat,

I was in right field(the only seats I can afford) when Gibson hit the Game 1 homer. It was magical, although that would be a foreign concept to a Giant fan. Also, if 1988 is ancient history, then you don't know anything about baseball. A tradition is earned/won throughout a franchise's HISTORY, especially in baseball. The Giants' most memorable moment happened in New York when Bobby Thomson hit the homer against Ralph Branca(AGAIN A DODGER), but of course that doesn't count in your book, since its REALLY ANCIENT HISTORY!!!

Anyway, enough of the onesided argument regarding the Dodgers/Littlegiant non-rivalry, lets get back to hoops.

This is a hoops board, correct?

[NorCalCat]

This is a basketball board. I have no clue, or concern about how your football team handles recruiting.

Everyone knows that your basketball team isn't a group of Rhodes Scholars.

No one denies that UCLA is more rigorous academically than U of A. The basketball staff gets a ton of free passes, and that's why so many guys flunk out. To characterize your players as smarter than any other teams is plain silly.

[11Banners]

Norcal, you just made a point that many UCLA fans have been trying to get through to the academic administration here. Most UCLA fans want to drop our academic standards for athletes around the level of Arizona, USC, Oregon, etc. Nonetheless, Arron Afflalo, Josh Shipp, and Jordan Farmar are great students. Lorenzo Mata, now we're just glad he started studying this past summer.

[Josh Gershon]

Lorenzo Mata barely speaks English man. He was ineligible for his first half of high school season because of academics. Arizona coaches backed away because of his grades. Now if he gets into UCLA, I'll be shocked. The kid had horrible, horrible grades for three years. If he can get them up in a semester to get into UCLA, then there should be an investigation.

[NorCalCat]

Flipper, I didn't remark that the Dodgers have no tradition. I did remark that it is hard to be the "benchmark' franchise when you haven't done anything in a couple of decades.

The Giants have plenty of magical post-season moments. In fact they are so recent that I can break out the DVD to watch them(Lofton NLCS, Bonds 600th---661 coming soon!etc)

Must be hard going into the attic to haul out the Betamax to watch Gibby, eh?

[MrBug708]

Originally posted by AZCAT07
Lorenzo Mata barely speaks English man. He was ineligible for his first half of high school season because of academics. Arizona coaches backed away because of his grades. Now if he gets into UCLA, I'll be shocked. The kid had horrible, horrible grades for three years. If he can get them up in a semester to get into UCLA, then there should be an investigation.

The last time UCLA had a recruit like this, it turned out well for Arizona, RE Chris MacAlister

[Josh Gershon]

I'm not even comparing academics or anything. I'm just saying that there is no way Mata should qualify for UCLA or any other school in the Pac-10. The other three recruits are obviously great students.

And I don't think Mata will end up at Arizona either. Maybe where Evan Burns vacationed for a season?

[Flipper]

Norcal,

Let's at least get the years/technology accurate. Betamax was long gone by '88. VHS, baby.

Again, if the Dodgers haven't done anything in a couple of decades, then the Giants haven't in 5-6 decades out west. Let me count, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's. Yes, 6 decades out west.

I've already told you to stop with the baseball thread. You will never win any arguments between the Dodgers/littlegiants.

BTW, why a 'Zona fan. Anything wrong with Stanford/Cal???

[NorCalCat]

The only accomplishment that a team can have in baseball is winning a championship?

The Giants have a bucket of post-season wins since '88....how many do the Bums have?

As I've told Auer, Dodger Fan is starting to sound like a Sun Devil, hanging on to long past glory. You know how it works in sports, "What have you done for me lately?"

And there's nothing wrong with Stanford or Cal per se, I just chose to spend 6 of the best years of my life at the U of A!

[Flipper]

As a team, YES, championships are the only accomplishments in baseball. Or any sports for that matter.

Now as individuals, of course you have those individual milestones like Barry's home runs or a pitcher winning 300, or a batter collecting 3000 hits. Guess what, those accomplishments are accomplished over what? Many, many years. In lots of instances over twenty years. Lets see, Barry started playing in the late 80's, and he accumulated his home runs over many years. Willie, the greatest Giant(he deserves a capital G), played what, 24 years.

Again, tradition/history/accomplishments are achieved through the years, not over short periods of time.

Over and out.

[WilmasPimp]

This is a sweet thread. I feel like I need picture in picture.

[Flipper]

I hear you, WP.

I keep telling Norcal to keep it in hoops, but he kept talking about the NON-RIVALRY OF THE Dodgers/littlegiants.

In keeping with the original thread, I'm pretty sure the reason Jawann is not at the Roundball is because he's already been chosen for the McD' AA game. There's got to be some coordination going on at that level. He deserves it.

[TheCat]

First....I love SoCal. It has the best weather in the country and many cultural advantages. I also think it has the worst fans I have ever seen anywhere. When you can't sell out that dump Pauley for even the good games it is sad. I wont even comment about USC's facilities. LA only supports a winner. The only exception to that might be the Dodger's who pull a strong minority (mainly hispanic) fan. Arte will soon cut into that.

And to my friend Davey. It wasn't me who said UCLA's academics were a joke it was YOUR player TJ who said it. I'm well aware of the requirements for non athletic students to get into UCLA but it seems those requirements aren't the same for atheletes. You just fail to recognize this. For 2 years one of your players only stayed eligible because of Santa Monica Community College. Maybe you don't read the papers out here. I assure you it made them. Just like TJ's misunderstanding that it was a requirement he attend class. You are a joke when you argue that your atheletes are held to the same standard that other students are.

Davey I'm aware of the locations of the raiders and warriors but included them since we were also talking about the cards and suns who aren't in Tucson. One last thing.....if you think that B. Bonds was the only baseball player to come out of the Ariz schools that is sad. In fact one of those relievers in SD is a former Wildcat.....Trevor something I think.

In closing....please support your team and move back to LA.

[Auercat]

The Gap is Closing!!!

Dodgers 5
Giants 0

The scoreboard never lies. :D

Bearing Down on The Dodgers Drawinf 3 Million Fans A Year 26 Times To The Giants 3

Auercat

[11Banners]

NorCal must be one of those new Giant fans who don't remember the days when 30,000 at Candlestick was huge.

And regarding UCLA's academics, the European Union just ranked UCLA #15 on its list of the best universities in the world.

[ByJoveByJingle]

who attend the "15th best University in the World" (nevermind that it isn't the 15th best university in America) have as much difficulty with reading comprehension as you seem to be having? Nobody here has suggested that UCLA is not a fine academic institution. People are questioning how this translates into the realm of NCAA athletics.

[11Banners]

"However you do have those remarkable academic standards that TJ outlined for us a few weeks back. Now that that myth is shattered what will you say."

Someone call the European Union.

For the last time, UCLA has tougher standards for incoming recruits than Arizona. See your finest football player who wished he could have been a Bruin.

[DavidImmel]

BJBJ, this thread has gone in circles for a bit now. I don't know how many posts have to point to the numerous football and basketball players whom we've lost over the last couple years because of academics. These players then are immediately eligible at other four year institutions...this is not a coincidence. That's all you need to see (other than the 4.3 GPA and 1330 SAT averages of the common students) to be able to discern that the academic requirements for student athletes at UCLA exceed those of other schools in a resounding manner. If you don't believe all of the published reports, journals and studies done, believe the obvious as it is right in front of you.

Cummings was given a higher mark than apparently he thought he deserved, so then this UCLA hater has to come on here and say that higher education at UCLA is a 'myth' for student athletes. This is a pedestrian view of a mistake committed by a faculty member, which I can assure you was corrected by the administration. Its like spotting a pimple on Cindy Crawford's ass and calling her ugly.

[ByJoveByJingle]

is nothing short of ridiculous . . . much of it my own fault. I just hope we don't have another Bruin fan chiming in about the latest academic rankings of UCLA in the Sing-Sing Daily Press & Review.

[Josh Gershon]

I'll reserve my judgement on UCLA's admissions for athletes until Lorenzo Mata qualifies or not.

Here is an interesting quote from UCLA commitment Brigham Harwell:

"I'm committed to UCLA and that's where I want to go. I have around a 2.8 or 2.9 GPA..."

"...with UCLA, I have to score an 820 (to be eligible)."

If UCLA's athletes only need a 2.8 and an 820 to get into the school, then their fans certainly shouldn't be bragging.

[DavidImmel]

Why is it so difficult for you people to admit that UCLA has a high academic standard. This is very sad. If Mata gets in, then he deserves to get in. LOOK AT ALL THE PLAYERS WE LOST TO ACADEMICS. HELLO? What...are all of those just mistakes...oversights by the administration? Maybe they thought that by kicking a couple of players out, they'd give off the appearance of being a good academic institution? Josh, you wanna do an 'investigation' if Mata gets into school? The integrity of a school which stands for things a lot greater than a winning sports tradition is being questioned because a decent basketball player is allowed to enter the U? Absurd.

[Josh Gershon]

Originally posted by AZCAT07
"I'm committed to UCLA and that's where I want to go. I have around a 2.8 or 2.9 GPA..."

"...with UCLA, I have to score an 820 (to be eligible)."

How much offense can an Arizona student take about UCLA's academics? :)

Lorenzo Mata barely passed through school for his first three years. His academic standing was so poor that he wasn't even eligible to play for the first half of his senior year. If you can go from ineligble in high school to someone who can get into one of the best academic schools in the country in one semester, then God bless America.

As Brigham Harwell said, a 2.8 and an 820 can get you into UCLA. What is everyone bragging about? Is this really a "high academic standard?"

Does anyone from UCLA consider a 2.8 and an 820 a "high academic standard?" I sure don't.

"From an ineligible high school athlete one semester to a UCLA Bruin the next... the story of Lorenzo Mata." I can't wait to read the book.

[DavidImmel]

Josh, you surely can't believe what you are saying. You are arguing the point that UCLA's academic requirements for student athletes are mediocre. If you are going to argue this, then at least make an attempt to answer one of the posts regarding the reasoning for the expulsion of some of our players who can immediately get into other schools. You can't. What all of this shows is that Arizona fans can't just be satisfied with having a better basketball team than UCLA, but have to show off their inferiority complex by attacking a pretigious academic institution like the one in Westwood. Just leave it alone, you guys sound ridiculous at this point. What is the objective behind trying to smear the integrity of UCLA? Be proud of your favorite school instead of always trying to put down others...its very telling, and quite sad.

[Auercat]

fans, students and supporters alike fail to acknowledge (and even scoff at the mentioning of) is the mulit-tiered admissions system which exists in Westwood. UCLA's admission requirements for Caucasians and Asians who are not athletes are among the most stringent in America. The UCLA admissions policies for athletes, "disadvantaged" minorites and junior college (within the state of CA) transfers are far less demanding. Once again, here's a partial list of the obvious student athletes who would never in their wildest dreams qualified for UCLA admission if they were not athletes:

Tonya Harding
Kevin Dempsey (Did not meet UA's General Admission Requirements)
Jerome Moiso
Jaron Rush
Michael Fey
Jelani McCoy
Rodney Leslie
Andre Patterson
TJ Cummings

This list doesn't include the majority of others who were admitted to UCLA despite having nowhere near the mean GPA or SAT scores of the rest of their admission class. This is such a stupid debate. Other than Stanford, every D1-A school bends their admissions standards for athletes. Duke, Northwestern, Berkeley, and yes, UCLA admit people they would never consider otherwise. Time for UCLA fans to deal with it and move on.

Bearing Down on Bruin Fans Handling The Truth

Auercat

[Josh Gershon]

This is funny. Not a single one of my points have been addressed. I'll say it again:

- A 2.8 and an 820 is NOT impressive. I didn't do crap in high school, and still got much better than a 2.8 and an 820. It is unbelievable to know that I could have gone to UCLA on an athletic scholarship with my mediocre (but much better than 2.8 and 820) grades.

- Lorenzo Mata was *ineligible* as a senior in high school to play athletics. Ineligible. He couldn't compte. His GPA wasn't high enough. Arizona stopped recruiting him because he had such poor grades. If you can go from ineligible as a senior to eligible at a University with "high academic standards" for athletes in just months, then there is a problem.

Yes, UCLA's academic requirements for athletes are harder than Arizona's. I realize that, and it doesn't bother me the least. But I also am not bragging about Arizona's academic standards. You're bragging about UCLA's.

2.8 and 820. This is what it takes to be enrolled at UCLA as a student athlete. Many of my friends in high school, who probably never studied for a test in their lives, could be admitted to play sports at UCLA.

Evan Burns couldn't be admitted. That says MUCH more to me about Evan Burns' study habits than UCLA's acceptance policies. 2.8 and 820. That's nothing to brag about.

This has nothing to do with any hard feelings towards UCLA. If USC fans were arguing, I'd say the same thing to them. The fact is that a 2.8 and an 820 is not impressive. If it's impressive to you, then we just have different opinions of "high academic standards."

[DavidImmel]

Originally posted by DavidImmel
What is the objective behind trying to smear the integrity of UCLA? Be proud of your favorite school instead of always trying to put down others...its very telling, and quite sad.

I don't know the academic requirements at other schools, but if you are saying that all you need to get into the UCLA football program is a 2.9 and 880 SAT, then you must need an 880 SAT and 2.0 to get in everywhere else. This is simple; HOW CAN THESE KIDS GET INTO OTHER SCHOOLS IF THEY CAN'T GET INTO UCLA? Someone answer this question...Please. In the law, this is called PROOF. It's crucial to the entire process of an argument.

Originally posted by DavidImmel
What is the objective behind trying to smear the integrity of UCLA? Be proud of your favorite school instead of always trying to put down others...its very telling, and quite sad.

I felt like posting that twice more, because it doesn't make sense to me.

[Josh Gershon]

You definitely misunderstand the premise of the argument. I'm not taking shots at UCLA. I'm taking shots of the fact that people are brgging about the fact that it takes a 2.8 and an 820 to get into the school as an athlete. That's it. I'm not comparing that to other schools. I'm just saying that a 2.8 and an 820 isn't impressive.

The fact that you keep posting the second part shows you're taking offense to this and think this argument is based over something it's not. I'm not putting down UCLA. Their academic standards for athletes are higher than other schools. But a 2.8 and an 820 aren't impressive no matter where you go.

My points haven't been addressed and I understand why. No UCLA fan could possibly be proud of the fact that it takes a 2.8 and 820 to get in there. It's nothing to be proud of at all. If you're a USC fan, it's nothing to be proud of that it takes a 2.7 and an 819 to get in. If you're an ASU fan, it's nothing to be proud of that it takes a 1.1 and a 400 to get in (I'm guessing Evan Burns still wouldn't qualify).

No UCLA fan could be proud if Lorenzo Mata can go from unqualified in high school to qualified at UCLA in months. I'd be embarrassed as an Arizona fan. Apparently, Arizona's coaches agree and stopped recruiting him. However, if you are proud of this, then that is just your belief system and morals.

You say: <i>Why is it so difficult for you people to admit that UCLA has a high academic standard. </i>

Now, if you really believe that a 2.8 and an 820 is a high academic standard, than you're just kidding yourself. But if what you meant to say was this:

<i>Why is it so difficult for you people to admit that UCLA has a <b>higher</b> academic standard than many other colleges.</i>

Then you'd have a much better argument. A 2.8 and 820 are, by no one's definition of the phrase, "high academic standards."

[DavidImmel]

Everything is relative, Joshua. 2.9 and 880 or whatever in the world of college athletics must be what 4.3 and 1330 is to the rest of the country. If Lorenzo Mata works his ass off, which from all accounts he has done, and needs to continue to do, then he'll get in. If he doesn't, then he doesn't. UCLA shouldn't be under threat of an investigation if he succeeds. How about fighting adversity? Condemn us for putting faith in the idea that a kid can turn his life around....Pretty 'embarrassing', huh?

[Josh Gershon]

I promise I won't launch an investigation. But Henry Bibby might. Especially when he's jealous that his two recruits didn't qualify and he's on the hot seat.

Lorenzo Mata is, by all accounts, a good kid and a hard worker. I didn't realize it was possible to be ineligible in high school and then be admitted into a place like UCLA. If it's possible, then I'm wrong.

Take Ty Morrison for example. He has bad grades and can't qualify for college next year. He's worked hard in night classes to do so, but the fact remains that he just can't qualify, not even to ASU, who obviously have pretty low standards. However, he has always had good enough grades to stay eligible in high school.

That's why I find it hard to believe that Mata can go from ineligible to eligible at UCLA in months. If he can, then good for him and I hope he succeeds. I just didn't realize it was possible to do.

[MrBug708]

If someone has a 1.8, and they get 2 A's in Summer School classes, 3 B's and 2 A's in fall classes, wouldn't that boost their GPA up a little bit to get into UCLA?

[ByJoveByJingle]

To get this thread back on track (which is really off track), I'll use a baseball analogy. Pedro Feliz is batting a stunning .247 going into the final week of the season. He hits a tear and bats .400 for the final week. Is he now a .300 hitter?

[11Banners]

Terrible analogy. UCLA and most schools only compute grades from Sophomore year and up. Mata's only had only 4 semesters of grades on his record. Starting this summer, he took some courses and did well, and then this past fall he also did very well. Then if he continues to do well in his last semester, that's pretty much 3 semesters of improvement compared to 4 semesters of lackluster grades. That's much different than your baseball analogy of 5 months of .240 and 1 week of .400 to boost himself to .300

[ByJoveByJingle]

I was using an extreme case to make the point clear. Let me see if I can even more clearly answer the question:

If someone has a 1.8, and they get 2 A's in Summer School classes, 3 B's and 2 A's in fall classes, wouldn't that boost their GPA up a little bit to get into UCLA? No.

[TheCat]

Hey Dave,

Want to site those journals and studies about UCLA's academic requirements for student atheletes? Want to also sight where you got your assurance that UCLA repreminded the professor that TJ said "gave inflated grades to all atheletes"? Can you also site the discipline that was given to the other professors that TJ said gave him a free pass?

Davey, this is real simple. The NCAA clearing house sets the standards for student atheles. It is the same for all schools. What I am saying is that UCLA uses this as its admission standards for most atheletes. You refuse to accept the premise that you are not recruiting rocket scientist for your football or basketball teams and that they do not have to live up to the same standards as other students. If you think they are the same you are living in a fools paradise.

One last thing. UCLA is a great academisc school. Unfortunately, some of the supporters of this institution have to blame their atheletic shortcoming on something and it makes them feel better to say "we would be great if we didn't have such high standards".

[MrBug708]

Originally posted by ByJoveByJingle
I was using an extreme case to make the point clear. Let me see if I can even more clearly answer the question:

No.


Except you are going off of 25 AB's in a weeks time out of 450 AB's

We are talking good enough grades to bring up his GPA .4 and with a good showing it's possible. Your analogy is too large for this instance

[MrBug708]

Originally posted by TheCat

Davey, this is real simple. The NCAA clearing house sets the standards for student atheles. It is the same for all schools. What I am saying is that UCLA uses this as its admission standards for most atheletes. You refuse to accept the premise that you are not recruiting rocket scientist for your football or basketball teams and that they do not have to live up to the same standards as other students. If you think they are the same you are living in a fools paradise.


Why do you think we lose recruits to ASU if we have the same academic standards as you say we do?!? The recruits don't have the grades to get into UCLA, one even mentioned that he didn't focus on school enough to get into UCLA

[11Banners]

MrBug,

Somehow Chris Mcallister gets into Arizona, but he was rejected by UCLA's admissions and even admits to it. Yet, UCLA and Arizona have the same standards for athletes. Losing out on a great CB who definitely wanted to be a Bruin did not hurt our defense in 1998. The logic on this board baffles me.

[TheCat]

I'm not sure the exact reason but I assume that they allow "partial qualifiers". Some schools in the PAC-10 allow them some don't. It is up to each institution. I believe that the U of A use to allow 2 per year (for all sports) but disbanned this practice for whatever reason. The following tutorial is to remind you what a partial quailifier is.

The minimum core-course grade-point average for a full qualifier is 2.000 (on a 4.000 scale) combined with an SAT verbal and math sections test score of 1010 or a sum score on the ACT of 86. The minimum test-score requirement is 820 on the SAT or 68 on the ACT combined with a 2.500 core-course GPA.

"Partial qualifiers" are entering freshmen who can practice with their team and can receive athletically related financial aid. However, they cannot participate in competition their first year. The minimum core-course GPA for a partial qualifier is 2.525 combined with an 810 SAT score or 67 ACT, and the minimum test-score requirement is 710 on the SAT or 59 on the ACT combined with a core-course GPA of 2.750.

I would assume the main reason that schools allow them or not is financial. By the way. UCLA is last or next to last in financial performance (that would be profit/loss) in the conference. Your athletic department would be hard pressed to support partial qualifiers living life in the red. It should be noted that UCLA's basketball revenue is second in the conference and is approx. half of Arizona's. By the way Arizona athletic dept is in the black....third in the conference . Stanford is by and far the top.

Now Mr. Bug..........you can leave payment at the door.

[MrBug708]

What's the link on UCLA's profitablity? Last I saw, they were second in conference

And UCLA doesnt take any partial qualifiers

[TheCat]

You were second in revenue and profitability for BBall not for entire athletics. I will try and find the link. I think it was on BRO. Stanford buried everyone.

[TheCat]

Two corrections to my post earlier. 1. Arizona is fourth in profitability and 2. UCLA is last.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/sports/links/uwfinances08.html

I was doing it from memory...........sorry

If you want to know the U of A lost many recruits in football also do to academics. One ended at UNLV (partial qualifier), the others I'm not sure. By the way, Kevin Demsey was not admited to the U of A because of academics but was admitted to UCLA.

Take care and avoid the Orkin man

[TheCat]

By the way....the finance info came from UCLA web site.

[MrBug708]

This is a great thread considering the old thread. If anything, Howland was able to turn a decent SG into a first round draft pick.

[PerpEph]

I would love to have seen what Jawann could have done if he hadn't gotten injured. He had a very good Freshman campaign, but injuries slowed down his career development significantly.

A shame. I hope he comes back as healthy as can be this year.

[Josh Gershon]

If anything, Howland was able to turn a decent SG into a first round draft pick.
I think you've been drinking out of the same cup as a certain UW fan/writer.

Thanks for the explanation though.

P.S. This thread has nothing to do with the other one, but you'd have to read both to know that.

[MrBug708]

I think you've been drinking out of the same cup as a certain UW fan/writer.

Thanks for the explanation though.

P.S. This thread has nothing to do with the other one, but you'd have to read both to know that.

Maybe not the topic, but certainly the intent of the thread. (Fixed your PS btw)

[Josh Gershon]

Maybe not the topic, but certainly the intent of the thread. (Fixed your PS btw)
And I fixed it back, but thanks.

There is no similarity in the intent of the threads. This was just a stupid argument between Arizona and UCLA fans. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to see the difference between that and what Trent is talking about.

[MrBug708]

Uh, thanks for editting my post

[Josh Gershon]

Uh, thanks for editting my post
I edited your post because you misquoted me. If you misquote me, I'll edit it back to what I actually said 100% of the time.

But you're welcome.

[Reydituto]

And I fixed it back, but thanks.

There is no similarity in the intent of the threads. This was just a stupid argument between Arizona and UCLA fans. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to see the difference between that and what Trent is talking about.

Maybe ... I wonder when I read the other recent threads ... regardless, Bug ...

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2351/stallownedue4.gif

[Zero]

Wow.

[TheCat]

Nice to see uCLA fans have been here 4 years with the same mantra. Consistency is important.

[MrBug708]

You should be thankful that Lute gave Benny boy a break because he is a new coach in the league. If Lavin was still your coach, Lute may have topped the worse loss in Bruin History with a worse spanking this year.

It might not be so easy to call off the dogs at McKale but feel free to post on Sunday how you think you see real progress in that team of yours. And please don't tell me wait till Ben has his own boys. Lute didn't use that excuse and niether should Ben. By the way, if Lute had your team they would finish at least 3rd in the PAC......

I would bet money S. Polk would out rebound both your 7ftrs.

Yes. Same mantra