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budd1e_lee
12-08-2004, 07:05 PM
Even though Ason Kidd wants out of the jers very very badly, he will not report if traded to Portland. That all but rules out the most likely of trades that would happen. I really think the most likely of deals at this point would be VC, although the nets want nothing but expiring contracts and picks in return. Maybe they will work out a 3 way deal with NY and Toronto seeing as the Isaih is looking to make a move for VC and Toronto BADLY wants to dump Jalen's contract. I think a move will have been made by the 1st of Feb at the latest.

Staf4Wooden
12-08-2004, 07:17 PM
JJason is shooting 70% from three point land. Give him a couple more games before he gets back to Ason.

JMarkJohns
12-08-2004, 07:20 PM
Even though Ason Kidd wants...he will not report if traded to Portland
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And Maurice Cheeks breathes a sign of relief...He's already on the hot-seat as a coach as it is. I'm sure he was frettin' none-stop knwing that Jason "Coach-Killer" Kidd was on his way into town...

By the way...I HATE JASON KIDD....

Staf4Wooden
12-08-2004, 07:31 PM
I HATE JASON KIDD

In a league filled with freak athletes with no skills, why hate on the best passer?

budd1e_lee
12-08-2004, 07:35 PM
cuz hes a whiny little b!tch that beats his wife

and has anyone ever seen a kid with a bigger head than his son?

Staf4Wooden
12-08-2004, 07:44 PM
and has anyone ever seen a kid with a bigger head than his son?

http://www.pritchettcartoons.com/caricatures/gbush.gif

killervibe
12-08-2004, 07:47 PM
Its a shame they tore that team apart. I really enjoyed seeing Jefferson experience so much success in the NBA. I hope he can make it to a team where his services can be more useful and appreciated.

JMarkJohns
12-08-2004, 07:50 PM
cuz hes a whiny little b!tch that beats his wife

and has anyone ever seen a kid with a bigger head than his son?

What he said...TIMES TEN...

I also dislike him for being a malcontent, who, ironically enough, it content with only being a passer.

FACT: good shooting breeds good passing.
FACT: Kidd's highest APG came the same season of his highest FG%

He never did anything for Phoenix, but convince JC that the Suns needed Penny and beat his wife. He never won a playoff series while leading the Suns and infact, has NEVER won a playoff series against a Western Conference team, even when his team was favored in the series.

He beat his wife, then seemingly stepped up. When he was traded, he gave the finger to fans and told everyone who would liston to f-off and to go f-themsleves...He tried to steal away Marion from the Suns by calling and even telling the media in Jersey that there's no reason for him to stay in the "One Horse Town"...

To top it all off, he then basiclly blamed the Suns for him beating his wife, stating that all the stress from the team underachieving and all the injuries just took their toll...Which off course is complete Bull**** since his wife stated that he had beated her for months and that this time was nothing like the others, but was the ast straw.

Add to this that he gets every coach fired...I HATE HIM...he's everything that's wrong in the League.

A horrible person who gets hyped and celebrated because he's talented, yet because of the talent, the player doesn't work on aspects of his game, but rather gets by until things get bad and his coach is fired or he's traded...

I HATE JASON KIDD

Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry...
...NBA-Happy... :) :eek: :mad: :angry: :fur: :devil: ...Kidd-enraged...

If I was at the first game in Phoenix when Kidd returned with the Nets, I would have had a "wife-beater" undershirt waving from a flag-pole, with a giant #5 on one side and "baby" written on the other...

have I yet mentioned that I HATE JASON KIDD!!!

PointGuardU03
12-09-2004, 02:13 AM
How is the heir to Magic and John Stockon's throne as the best passing pg in the game everything that's worng with the NBA? I know you hate him, but that's a bit melodramatic. I hate Kobe, but that doesn't make hime the reason the NBA is water-down. Kidd makes everyone around him better and is a far more enjoyable to watch then Stephon Marbury and Baron Davis's of the world.

JMarkJohns
12-09-2004, 02:51 AM
Don't make me laugh...

So he's the best PG by default. So what, he's never earned it.

O-VER-RA-TED....


Look at the stats. He's nothing more than a more celebrated Jason Williams.

Point Guards should be judged by assists, then FG%, then A/TO ratio

Kidd fails miserably in the latter two catagories...MISERABLY.

It's all laid out there. His failures, his moving's on, his fired coaches, his winless record against the best competition.

Kidd can't hold the guys jock who hold Stockton's jock, let alone Magic.

Watch a game, not just the fastbreaks. Kidd may be the single worst half-court PG who's widely reguarded as great. He does other things, but his failure in the half-court is astounding.

Stockton, my friend, leads the league in assists and shot over 50% from the field fer his career...That's greatness. if it weren't fer Jordan, He would prolly have two rings, same as Thomas...Kidd, has never even sniffed Western Conference Playoffs success.

Staf4Wooden
12-09-2004, 03:19 AM
Point Guards should be judged by assists, then FG%, then A/TO ratio

Kidd fails miserably in the latter two catagories...MISERABLY.
How is his 2.75 career A/TO ratio poor, considering he is 4th all-time in assists per game?

JMarkJohns
12-09-2004, 03:35 AM
Just watch a game...he's not that great. He's fourth all-time because old-age hasn't lowered his numbers yet.

If he plays the same number of seasons (19) as Stockton, going at his current rate, Kidd will surpass Stockton's Career Turnoevers in his 17th season or surpass it by almost 400 to's...again, that's without old age setting in and taking it's toll.

Kidd is very good, but hardly great. He's the best of a weak lot, but that hardly qualifies him for the praise he's recieved.

Stockton dominated the best of competition. Thomas, more than dominated. Magic owned everyone. Even Payton and KJ won several playoff series against the best competition. Kidd, is 0-fer against the west in his career. So he beat sub-500 team in the East...SO WHAT. he's never done or won anything that mattered, but is celebrated as a true great.

He's been traded, soo to be thrice. He's gotton coaches everywhere fired. He's fueded openly about teammates, coaches and owners. He's cursed out fans, flipped of players, beaten his wife and blamed those who stood by him.

If this was Artest or Kobe, you'd hate him, but since it's Pac-10 Kidd and he's so unselfish, he's celebrated...give it a rest...Stats don't make the player and kidd's got little else to show fer his career. BOO-freakin-HOO...

Staf4Wooden
12-09-2004, 03:45 AM
All I ever said was that he was a great passer.

JMarkJohns
12-09-2004, 03:49 AM
Transition, he's at the top of the list and prolly top-t all-time, behind only Magic and Maravich...

He's a hell of a PG, but is definately overrated.

His Playoff totals: Assists - 661, Turnovers - 258...2.5/1 ratio

in other words 10 assists gets ya 4 turnovers...that NOT great...

PointGuardU03
12-09-2004, 03:24 PM
Kidd's fine in the half court offense. I don't have time to look up stats (due to finals and term papers), but I'd wager his 2.5 A/T ratio is the best among pg's in the last 7-10 yrs. Kidd should have a high TO margin b/c he's creating shots for all his teammates. And to call Kidd a glorified J-will is dumb. J-Will excels only it taking and badly missing momentuem shifting shots. He always killed Sac-towns run with an air ball on a three or a bad pass. Kidd is smart enough to know his limitations, and it appears he's actually has a decent shot this year. He also has hit several game winners in the post season, and just becuase it's the east doesn't mean jack. The east is full of exceptional permiter players, it's in the post where they're hurting. Kidd is a bit of a whiner, but so are 199 out of 200 NBA players. Kidd makes everyone around him better, I fail to see how that makes you overrated...

JMarkJohns
12-09-2004, 03:45 PM
I'm not going to debate this anymore...

Jason Williams over his career has a similer ratio. Williams 2.65 to Kidds 2.7...they are almost identical shooters for their career Williams 39% to Kidd's 40%.

And while Kidd averages more points and assists, he also has played on average about 10 more minutes per game than Williams...Kidd is the better rebounder, but he's a PG, so, so what...I didn't say identical, I said that Kidd is a more glorified Williams...

They are very similer. And yer "Williams killed the Kings in the playoffs" is laughable, considering he didn't hurt them when his led Kings defeated the Kidd led Suns in four games, despite being the underdog...


And Nash has the best active A/TO ratio at 2.84...


PS: Williams last year averages 3.62 A/TO compared to Kidd's 2.89...

JMarkJohns
12-09-2004, 04:09 PM
Kidd's fine in the half court offense. I don't have time to look up stats (due to finals and term papers), but I'd wager his 2.5 A/T ratio is the best among pg's in the last 7-10 yrs. Kidd should have a high TO margin b/c he's creating shots for all his teammates...

Kidd is not fine in the halfcourt. He's down right awful. Teams know they can sag off of him and play the lanes, forcing him to do one of two things, 1. Force a shot, 2. force a pass...either way they'll likely get the ball. This is why he's had so much trouble against the best compeitition over his career. In the playoffs, the transition game is limited and halfcourt wins out.

Kidd's great transition PG and a very good PG overall. But simply because he's celebrated by the Media as the greatest doesn't mean it's so. I'd take Steve Nash and Mike Bibby over him any chance I can. They both shoot, they both pass, they both do them great...


Kidd is smart enough to know his limitations, and it appears he's actually has a decent shot this year. He also has hit several game winners in the post season, and just becuase it's the east doesn't mean jack. The east is full of exceptional permiter players, it's in the post where they're hurting...

This is the worst arguement I've ever heard.

Smart enough to now his limitations? He shot over 42% several times. Each time he did, his APG went up. If anything, Kidd is too lazy to improve his game to the necessary skill to dominate. He's a professional. He shouldn't be content with simply dribbling, passing and rebounding.

I find it no coincidence that the year of his highest FG% and the year of his highest APG was the same year of his lowest TOPG...

This is a fact: Good shooting breeds good passing. Players like Stockton could kill you either way. You overplay for the pass, Jumper. You overplay for the jumper, pass. You play in limbo, Stockton directs you like an orchestra.

I also do not find it a coincidense that Stockton leads the League in assists and was a 50% shooter for his career...

And whom did Kidd beat in the East that was really worthy of anything? The Celtics, the Pacers w/ Isaiah as coach, the Bucks? Give me a break...


Kidd is a bit of a whiner, but so are 199 out of 200 NBA players. Kidd makes everyone around him better, I fail to see how that makes you overrated...

Kidd's not a bit of a whiner...he's quite the whiner. Instead of improving his game, thus his team, Kidd would rather be shipped to a contender and start afresh...He's beaten his wife, several times admittedly. He's cursed at fans, flipped of players, had every coach fired, fueded with anyone he could...give me a break. Why is this celebrated? Artest, Sprewell, Kobe, Kidd...they are all the same. Wake up from the Kidd ally-oop induced stuper and see him for what he truly is: A wife-beatin', coach-firing, fan-abusing, player-fueding, never beat a Western Conference team, 40% career shooting PG who happens to be a very gifted passer who plays just outside New York...

I will also save you the time...

01-02 Nets...
PG - Marbury
SG - Johnny Newman
SF - Half the year of Van Horn
PF - Williams
C - ???
Bench: Harris
Injuries: Kenyon Martin (broken leg), Kittles (knee)...

02-03 Nets...
PG - Kidd
SG - Kittles
SF - Van Horn
PF - Martin
C - McCollough
Bench: Jefferson, Harris, Collins, Williams
Injuries: None of significance...

The drastic turn-around was only partly due to Kidd's arrival, but had more to do with the amount of new and returning talent...Not saying Marbury would have gotton the same out of the team, but Kidd alone wasn't the difference between the Lottory and the Finals...

Solly for writing a book, but this all needs to be said...

Staf4Wooden
12-09-2004, 05:05 PM
Jason Williams over his career has a similer ratio. Williams 2.65 to Kidds 2.7...they are almost identical shooters for their career Williams 39% to Kidd's 40%.
You must really hate Jason Kidd, considering you don't call Jason Williams, Ason Williams.
:wink2:

JMarkJohns
12-09-2004, 05:14 PM
I didn't start te Thread, but I gotcha...

Williams has actually curbed down his shooting in favor of assists and better ball control.

That's why I gave the 03-04 A/TO ratio later on. He's tried to improve. Some people just can't shoot. Williams has never been any good. Kidd, on the other hand, has. He's shot 44% which is darn good for a PG and over 42% twice...he just doesn't seem to care.

Years back, after they went to the finals, Nike had kidd do a commerecial where kidd's remembering his days on the play ground...his line goes, "When I was little, the bigger kids never let me shoot the ball. All I could do was pass...Look where that's got me."

Yeah, clever boy, It's gotton you nothing but failure against the top teams and a career 40FG%...it's also gotten ya soon to be four professional teams in 13 year career and about 6 different coaches...damn the man irritates me. he's just a jackass...