Tommy's trashing Depo

[wosn99]

From dodgerblues.com:

In other Dodger news, Tommy Lasorda has apparently been opening his fat trap lately—and not just to swallow cheese ravioli. According to Ken Rosenthal, Lasorda is trashing GM Paul DePodesta to anyone who'll listen. Interesting, we figured that when you trade Paul Konerko for Jeff Shaw that you're no longer allowed to criticize any other general manager—or anyone else for that matter. Ever. Not the gardener who accidentally breaks your sprinkler with his lawn mower, not the busboy who accidentally spills water on your crotch, not your senile neighbor who runs over your daughter's cat. If you're Tommy Lasorda, you've got absolutely no right to criticize anyone. Fat boy thinks he's God. Little does he know that title belongs to Jim Colborn.


Here is what Rosenthal wrote on the topic:

"The Milton Bradley-Jeff Kent feud not only divided the clubhouse but also exposed rifts in the front office. DePodesta is being publicly questioned by owner Frank McCourt and bad-mouthed by McCourt's special adviser, Tommy Lasorda.

McCourt told the Los Angeles Times he underestimated the importance of character, a veiled indictment of DePodesta's stats-driven approach. Lasorda, according to rival scouts and executives, is trashing DePodesta to anyone who will listen. And, lest anyone forget, DePodesta and manager Jim Tracy aren't exactly philosophical twins.

At the end of last week, McCourt wound up issuing a lukewarm vote of confidence for DePodesta.

One big happy family, this is not."

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=12199


ENOUGH ALREADY. I think everyone, (including Depo and that little Armenian kid named Jubal) knows that Chemistry is important.

[Mustache Man]

This is retarded. The Dodgers would've run away with the division if they weren't starting half of the Las Vegas 21s in their lineup. Let's see, lose Drew, Gagne, Bradley, Valentin, Perez, etc...and that's bad GMing? If anything, the large majority of the offseason moves that he was roundly criticized for (like cutting ties w/Beltre) turned out to be good moves.

[barringer97]

The thing about Drew is that he is always hurt. Bad sign IMO.

[Itamicbomb]

Well, they shouldn't have given him five years, that's for sure.

Since he had been healthy (and an absolute monster) the year before, I see nothing wrong with the concept of signing him.

On a related note, is he coming back any time soon? I can't find any info on him.

[MTFC]

Along with the Dodgers, a case could be made that the Padres and Giants would've run away with the division had they not had key injuries as well. The ass end of that division is the D-Backs who have remained relatively injury-free yet still either trail or are about as awful as teams who have been without players such as Milton Bradley, Barry Bonds, Khalil Greene, Mark Loretta, Eric Gagne, Dave Roberts, Adam Eaton and JD Drew for large parts of the season. Hell, the D-Backs might have been worse than the Rockies in 2005 had Helton performed anywhere near his career norms and Barmes not had his deer incident.

The injury excuse cannot be used when it comes to JD Drew because the only time in his career he has not been injured came in his contract year. Bad GMing would be giving a nice, long contract to Odalis Pere who is about as unreliable as they come considering he can only pitch in Dodger Stadium. Depo will turn that team around but I think it will be mostly because of the strength of the farm system and not his personnel moves at the major league level over the past year.

[Jason Scheer]

Actually D-Po did make ****ty moves. Choi is absolutely terrible and JD Drew has never been healthy so he was given a big contract. He also made no trades this season to improve the team even when he has prospects up the Ying Yang. He has been less than impressive

[Itamicbomb]

The sellers this year (what few ones there were) were unreasonable in their demands for prospects, so I am actually quite pleased DePo didn't move the young guys for summer rentals. The Dodgers are a lot better off for the next few years with guys like Guzman and Billingsley still in their system than they would have been otherwise. Once Adam Dunn puts on a Dodger uniform they will be fine, and they could still do alright this year.

[wosn99]

Along with the Dodgers, a case could be made that the Padres and Giants would've run away with the division had they not had key injuries as well. The ass end of that division is the D-Backs who have remained relatively injury-free yet still either trail or are about as awful as teams who have been without players such as Milton Bradley, Barry Bonds, Khalil Greene, Mark Loretta, Eric Gagne, Dave Roberts, Adam Eaton and JD Drew for large parts of the season. Hell, the D-Backs might have been worse than the Rockies in 2005 had Helton performed anywhere near his career norms and Barmes not had his deer incident.

The injury excuse cannot be used when it comes to JD Drew because the only time in his career he has not been injured came in his contract year. Bad GMing would be giving a nice, long contract to Odalis Pere who is about as unreliable as they come considering he can only pitch in Dodger Stadium. Depo will turn that team around but I think it will be mostly because of the strength of the farm system and not his personnel moves at the major league level over the past year.

No one in MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL has been hit as hard as the Dodgers in terms of injuries. This team has yet to field its starting lineup or have all 5 projected starters on the 25 man roster ant ANY time this season. The Giants season was essentially scrapped once Bonds was out. That was Sabean putting all of his eggs in one basket. This team is 10-15 games over .500 with all guys in the lineup. That being said, Depo still made some questionable moves. Choi hasn't been as big a disappointment as most think. If he played everyday, he would have 20 HR's and a nice OBP. Tracy prefers to play the "goggled wonder" Phillips because of his "clutch hitting" abilities.

[wosn99]

Actually D-Po did make ****ty moves. Choi is absolutely terrible and JD Drew has never been healthy so he was given a big contract. He also made no trades this season to improve the team even when he has prospects up the Ying Yang. He has been less than impressive


The only "bad" move was signing Drew to such a long term contract when he has a history of injuries. Getting Valentin for $3.5 mil when he hit more than 30HR was a bargain. Who knew he would tear his knee up and lose his stroke? The talk about the bench being built on the cheap by the local papers is also crap as a bench with Ledee, Saenz, Repko, Robles would rake. Hell, these guys are all starting noe because of injuries. Getting Jason Phillips for Kaz Ishii was a steal, despite the knock on Phillips throwing. The guy is second in the NL to Piazza in HR's and RBI's last I checked. Letting Beltre hasn't been a bad move and Lowe's record is not there but his ERA is decent and he is kept the Dodgers in a lot more games than Russ Ortiz has for AZ.

Bottom line: This team will retool again in the offseason and barring injuries will tear up the NL West. The Giants will have to rebuild, the Pads are facing resigning a lot of FA's they don't have the money for and the Dbacks want to compete with some huge holes they can't fill from their system.

[Mustache Man]

Actually D-Po did make ****ty moves. Choi is absolutely terrible and JD Drew has never been healthy so he was given a big contract. He also made no trades this season to improve the team even when he has prospects up the Ying Yang. He has been less than impressive

Making a trade requires a trade partner. Did you notice that nobody made any big moves this year? Teams were asking for way too much for mediocre players.

Also, Drew was hit by a pitch and broke his wrist this year. Did that happen because he was injury prone? When he's healthy, he is one of the top 10 hitters in all of baseball. He's averaged over 120 games/year for the past 6 years...if you can get his production for 3/4 of a season, it's worth his salary, especially if you do things like build a strong bench to account for him missing time (which the Dodgers did).

[Mustache Man]

No one in MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL has been hit as hard as the Dodgers in terms of injuries. This team has yet to field its starting lineup or have all 5 projected starters on the 25 man roster ant ANY time this season. The Giants season was essentially scrapped once Bonds was out. That was Sabean putting all of his eggs in one basket. This team is 10-15 games over .500 with all guys in the lineup. That being said, Depo still made some questionable moves. Choi hasn't been as big a disappointment as most think. If he played everyday, he would have 20 HR's and a nice OBP. Tracy prefers to play the "goggled wonder" Phillips because of his "clutch hitting" abilities.

Exactly...you can put the players on the roster, but can't force the manager to actually play them. Why Choi isn't playing everyday is a mystery only Jim Tracy can answer.

[Itamicbomb]

Why isn't Tracy being held accountable for not playing Choi? Seems like Billy Beane told Howe and tells Macha where exactly each of them gets off; perhaps DePo needs to start flexing some muscle as well.

[barringer97]

Making a trade requires a trade partner. Did you notice that nobody made any big moves this year? Teams were asking for way too much for mediocre players.

Also, Drew was hit by a pitch and broke his wrist this year. Did that happen because he was injury prone? When he's healthy, he is one of the top 10 hitters in all of baseball. He's averaged over 120 games/year for the past 6 years...if you can get his production for 3/4 of a season, it's worth his salary, especially if you do things like build a strong bench to account for him missing time (which the Dodgers did).

This guy misses a quarter of the season every year and you say he is still worth $11million a year? After this year, he is only going to average around 110 games per year.

$11million for this? No Way.

[Morgan]

Exactly...you can put the players on the roster, but can't force the manager to actually play them. Why Choi isn't playing everyday is a mystery only Jim Tracy can answer.

He is a bad manager who was saved by having Gange in the bully to save his ass.


Didn't Lasorda trade for Carlos Perez too? He was a disaster as the GM and compared to "The new Sheriff in Town" he did a good job.

[Mustache Man]

This guy misses a quarter of the season every year and you say he is still worth $11million a year? After this year, he is only going to average around 110 games per year.

$11million for this? No Way.

In 2004, he was one of the 5 most valuable hitters in baseball. $11 million doesn't even break the top-25 in salary. A broken wrist (this year) won't hurt him long-term...and with Bradley probably gone next year, his knees will do better playing CF.

[Morgan]

In 2004, he was one of the 5 most valuable hitters in baseball. $11 million doesn't even break the top-25 in salary. A broken wrist (this year) won't hurt him long-term...and with Bradley probably gone next year, his knees will do better playing CF.

I don't understand why his knees will do better playing CF. Explain?

[Mustache Man]

Why isn't Tracy being held accountable for not playing Choi? Seems like Billy Beane told Howe and tells Macha where exactly each of them gets off; perhaps DePo needs to start flexing some muscle as well.

Accountability comes due at the end of the year...don't forget that the whole coaching staff is working on 1-year contracts.

Billy told Howe not to play John Mabry, and he did anyways. The managers sometimes try to assert their own authority. I wish Macha would have all managerial duties taken away, except his role as a "leader of men." someone should be telling him exactly when to pull pitchers, since he obviously can't handle the role himself.

[Mustache Man]

I don't understand why his knees will do better playing CF. Explain?

Less stopping and starting, no chasing down foul balls.

[Morgan]

Less stopping and starting, no chasing down foul balls.

Is the difference really that great? I'd image the running and diving for balls in the gap would be just as big a worry if Drew is in Center.

[barringer97]

In 2004, he was one of the 5 most valuable hitters in baseball. $11 million doesn't even break the top-25 in salary. A broken wrist (this year) won't hurt him long-term...and with Bradley probably gone next year, his knees will do better playing CF.


There was a provision in his deal that he can opt out after 2 years...its was a no win contract for the Dodgers. He plays well, he opts out...he's hurt, he collects $11million a year. Terrible deal.

[Mustache Man]

There was a provision in his deal that he can opt out after 2 years...its was a no win contract for the Dodgers. He plays well, he opts out...he's hurt, he collects $11million a year. Terrible deal.

It's actually not quite that bad for the Dodgers. They get him for the next 2 years, in ostensibly his prime years. If he plays good enough to want to opt out, they save the money later when they have prospects to fill in.

If he does get hurt, in most circumstances, they can collect insurance on most of the contract. Drew still collects his money but it doesn't necessarily come out of the Dodgers' pocket.

Also, what if the alternative was, give Drew the opt-out clause after 2 years, or don't sign him at all?

[barringer97]

It's actually not quite that bad for the Dodgers. They get him for the next 2 years, in ostensibly his prime years. If he plays good enough to want to opt out, they save the money later when they have prospects to fill in.

If he does get hurt, in most circumstances, they can collect insurance on most of the contract. Drew still collects his money but it doesn't necessarily come out of the Dodgers' pocket.

Also, what if the alternative was, give Drew the opt-out clause after 2 years, or don't sign him at all?

No, it is bad. This year has already been a waste. They also don't do insurance on contracts anymore....especially on guys like Drew. His premium (if they had one) had to be the highest around.

I don't sign him at all...They owe him $55million, that's a lot of loot.

[barringer97]

From Rob Neyer

It's a risky bet, though. And more now than ever. Because -- as Bill Madden reported in Sunday's New York Daily News -- insurance companies are significantly more conservative these days than they used to be, when insuring the contracts of baseball players. Before 2002, the sky was the limit and you could insure just about anything. That terrible Mo Vaughn contract? Insured, and so it wound up costing the Mets relatively little (which is something, by the way, that we almost always fail to consider when we're talking about a team that's wasted a great deal of money on a player who got hurt).

Anyway, no more. According to Madden, the insurers won't cover any contract that runs more than three seasons, and even when they will insure a contract, it's "only for injuries unrelated to any previous injuries."

[11Banners]

This is retarded. The Dodgers would've run away with the division if they weren't starting half of the Las Vegas 21s in their lineup. Let's see, lose Drew, Gagne, Bradley, Valentin, Perez, etc...and that's bad GMing? If anything, the large majority of the offseason moves that he was roundly criticized for (like cutting ties w/Beltre) turned out to be good moves.


Exactly. Hell, if you only put Gagne in the bullpen and Drew in RF, they would probably be above .500 and winning this crummy division. Depo will have a ton of money to work with next year as Green, Hundley, and Driefort all come off the books for the Dodgers. McCheap better spend that money or else he'll be public enemy #1 in LA.

[Jason Scheer]

There is a lot of ifs with JD Drew and he really isnt worth any of them. Tracy is a stubborn manager (people in Ca love their stubborn managers) but I would assume there is a reason Choi doesn't play much as I really dont think it is all because of bad managing. I guess I'll give him the offseason but if not many moves are made to improve the team then there really is not much you can say for Depo.

[Mustache Man]

There is a lot of ifs with JD Drew and he really isnt worth any of them. Tracy is a stubborn manager (people in Ca love their stubborn managers) but I would assume there is a reason Choi doesn't play much as I really dont think it is all because of bad managing. I guess I'll give him the offseason but if not many moves are made to improve the team then there really is not much you can say for Depo.

Rest assured that a lot of changes will be made in the offseason.

Tracy likes Phillips because he thinks he is a "clutch" hitter, even though Choi outhits him vs. lefties and righties. I could mildly understand a Choi/Phillips platoon, sitting Choi vs. lefties (even though I wouldn't do that), but what Tracy is doing makes no sense.

[11Banners]

Tracy continues to play Jason Phillips who is one of the worst players in baseball statistically. Tracy will be fired at the end of the year in my opinion.

[wosn99]

Tracy continues to play Jason Phillips who is one of the worst players in baseball statistically. Tracy will be fired at the end of the year in my opinion.


With all the rumors floating around, I would say Trace is gone. Maybe all that talk about Dusty to LA was true. I hope not. My elbow began to ache as soon I heard that rumor. With all the money the Dodgers will have in the offseason, I can't imagine the Dodgers not overhauling the team yet again. There are definite needs at both corner outfield positions and the conrner infield positions, (at least if Tracy hangs around and continues to NOT play Choi). The team is pretty solid up the middle and has depth in the starting rotation and bullpen. A bullpen with 5 guys, (Broxton, Gagne, Brazoban, Sanchez and Kuo) that can all top 95MPH on the radar gun would be intimidating to say the least and Lowe and Penny won't go a combined 15-22 again. Time to play GM:

1. Sign Brian Giles (he wants 3 yrs 36 mil and I don't think SD will bite on that and resign Trevor Hoffman who wants Gagne money)
B. Trade for Adam Dunn or a lower tier OF like an Aubrey Huff. The Dodgers certainly have the chips in the minors and in the majors to make a huge deal. I can't see the Reds giving Dunn 8.5 mil in arbitration when Griffey is still owed $13mil and is still untradable. A package of Antonio Perez, Broxton and a Werth or one of the AA infielders like Loney or Young should get the job done.
III. Resign Jeff Weaver. He wants to stay in LA and a deal similar to Lowe's would make him stay IMO. Depo has already said that if he wants to resign, he will have to take a paycut but do you think Boras will let the fact that Weaver is 13-9 and would make less than Lowe who is 9-13? It's not like the two have had two opposite seasons. Weaver has just been at the right place at the right time.

My lineup
SS Izturis
LF Dunn
RF Giles
CF Drew
2B Kent
1B Choi
C Navarro
3B LaRoche/Guzman/Aybar
P Weaver
P Lowe
P Perez
P Penny
P Jackson

God, I hope Barry Bonds goes to the AL soon..... That bastard is going to hit 4 bombs in the next two games and I am going to turn the radio on as he hits all of them. He did it to me for number 70 and 71 and he'll do it again tomorrow.

[Itamicbomb]

I'd rather have Dunn at first and Werth in left, but that looks like a very plausible and nasty lineup.

[11Banners]

Jayson Werth cannot hit a fastball. Does anyone think the Dodgers might make a run for Bengie Molina? Also, I don't want to see Cesar Izturis in the leadoff role anymore. He simply doesn't put up the #'s to be in that spot. He is a #2 better at best. Here's a whacky lineup I would love to see.. I see the Dodgers having A LOT of money available this year, thus they should go after Bengie Molina, Dunn, and a few other players.

1. JD Drew (He OBP is one of the best) CF
2. Antonio Perez (LF)
3. Jeff Kent 2B
4. Adam Dunn RF
5. Bengie Molina C
6. Choi 1B (I can't think of someone else at the moment)
7. Cesar Izturis SS
8. Sign a free agent at 3B

1. Penny
2. Weaver
3. Perez
4. Lowe
5. Jackson/Billingsley

BP: Bring in a real lefty, a reliable righty, and keep Sanchez, Broxton, and of course, Gagne.

[wosn99]

Jayson Werth cannot hit a fastball. Does anyone think the Dodgers might make a run for Bengie Molina? Also, I don't want to see Cesar Izturis in the leadoff role anymore. He simply doesn't put up the #'s to be in that spot. He is a #2 better at best. Here's a whacky lineup I would love to see.. I see the Dodgers having A LOT of money available this year, thus they should go after Bengie Molina, Dunn, and a few other players.

1. JD Drew (He OBP is one of the best) CF
2. Antonio Perez (LF)
3. Jeff Kent 2B
4. Adam Dunn RF
5. Bengie Molina C
6. Choi 1B (I can't think of someone else at the moment)
7. Cesar Izturis SS
8. Sign a free agent at 3B

1. Penny
2. Weaver
3. Perez
4. Lowe
5. Jackson/Billingsley

BP: Bring in a real lefty, a reliable righty, and keep Sanchez, Broxton, and of course, Gagne.


I like the idea of gettign Molina but C is a position of depth for the Dodgers with Navarro and Russell Martin. Depo really likes both of these guys and I don't see him dumping Navarro so quick for a FA like Molina. I think he will plug the corner OF spots first as they are the biggest need an then go from there. There are rumors that Martin is playing so well this year that he may unseat Navarro by this time next year. I think Werth will get one more chance next year and then he may be relegated to the bench or packaged as part of a deal, (maybe even this winter).