AZ v BYU----From a BYUFAN

[BYUFAN]

Just wanted to get some feedback on how your team is looking so far. I know that you got some pretty good recruits, but have they all qualified? What are your strengths and weaknesses coming out of spring ball? How do you feel about BYU?

Arizona is the non-conf team that worries me the most. We also play Tulsa and BC, but I think Tulsa is beatable and BC will not be as good as last year. Arizona, on the other hand is a team that I think has underachieved. If they bring their “A” game- see UCLA- then BYU is going to be headed for trouble.

Thank you in advance for any responses. If you have questions about BYU I am more than happy to answer them. I will check back shortly.

[Drayhound]

Our strengths will be our defense and especially our secondary. Our linebackers will be much improved because they will all be healthy at the same time. With Louis Holmes coming in our D-line will also be improved

On offense its all about Willie Tuitama. He brings talent to a position that we haven't had in Arzona. The WR will be better with the new recruits. The OL may see the most improvement. The overall talent from last years line has increased tremendously. The one question that we have on offense is if Chris Henry can hold on to the ball and run like we know he can. If he can solidify that position then we should be okay at RB.

Overall this team will be a lot better then last years version

[WildcatPaulG]

BYUFAN, UCLA wasn't as good as advertised coming into the match-up with us. Granted, we played a flawless game... some could say beyond what we should have been playing... but UCLA wasn't as good as their record stated, nor did they play anywhere near what they were able to play that game. 7 times out of 10, I bet on UCLA to win that game.

If Arizona does play to that level, BYU will be in trouble. I like the well rounded team that BYU is building and I think with Utah on the decline, BYU has an opportunity to re-assert themselves as the main attraction in that conference. If BYU is excellent, it's good for the M-West, since BYU is one of the best travelling teams in the nation... regardless of record.

I haven't seen enough of what the future holds from Stoops to bet fully on Arizona. I feel very good about the chances against the Cougs, because I don't know if the BYU offense is adequate enough to take on... arguably... the best secondary in the Pac-10. The defensive side of the ball is no question for me.

The game boils down on how well the Arizona offense operates. If it operates well, BYU will lose. If it doesn't, it will be very close.

[BYUFAN]

I feel very good about the chances against the Cougs, because I don't know if the BYU offense is adequate enough to take on... arguably... the best secondary in the Pac-10. The defensive side of the ball is no question for me.

The game boils down on how well the Arizona offense operates. If it operates well, BYU will lose. If it doesn't, it will be very close.

Thank you for your responses.


I hope you are unpleasantly surprised with the BYU offense. The defense was so poor last year that it overshadowed the successful offense. In the bowl game versus Cal we had TD drives of 96, 92, 91, and 74 yards.

Another question- is this Stoops last year if Arizona finishes with another poor season- 2-4 wins??

[BYUFAN]

Our strengths will be our defense and especially our secondary.

Overall this team will be a lot better then last years version

Looking at your box scores from last season, your secondary does look impressive. Hopefully our offensive coordinator has learned from his first year on the job. Your run defense seems suspect. Do you run a 3-4 or a 4-3?

[WildcatPaulG]

Another question- is this Stoops last year if Arizona finishes with another poor season- 2-4 wins??

Don't think so. Livengood is already looking into getting Stoops extended through 2010. He believes in Stoops, as do much of us.

We used to run a 3-4 double eagle flex, up until about four years back. Mackovic changed it to a 4-3... and I'm not sure if we switched back to a 3-4 yet.

[BYUFAN]

I have tickets in section 209- how are these seats? Too high? I'll be able to see the video-scoreboard right?

[UA Direct]

I have tickets in section 209- how are these seats? Too high? I'll be able to see the video-scoreboard right?

Whoa, dude! I know for a fact that you're up past your BYU curfew!! Hope you have some clout so you don't get suspended.

[Cubix]

Looking at your box scores from last season, your secondary does look impressive. Hopefully our offensive coordinator has learned from his first year on the job. Your run defense seems suspect. Do you run a 3-4 or a 4-3?
Antoine Cason is pretty much the best junior CB in the nation, maybe overall. And the other corner is just as good, but is too short, so he gets picked on more. Our safety Michael Johnson is one of the most amazing players I have ever seen. His recovery speed is unparralled. (See his rundown of Reggie Bush last year)

Our run defense stats were horrible because our top LB'ers were always hurt, so hopefully they will be able to stay healthy. Our DL was too small and too thin to be able to stay up for the whole game. So with Holmes and (hopefully) Gabe Long, there will be no weakness on our D.

Our offensive line is a mix of youth and experience, but should be slightly better than average. I believe we won't have a good line for another year.

You should know about Tui...We have some VERY good playmakers on the outside, and some very good incoming WR's and TE's.

The big quiestion remains if a RB steps up...

Is BYU more of a run or pass team? What is your offensive and defensive positives and negatives?

[ZonaDefender1]

I have tickets in section 209- how are these seats? Too high? I'll be able to see the video-scoreboard right?

Yeah you will be able to see the video scoreboard and biosphere 2 from up there, but there really isnt a bad seat at Arizona Stadium so i think you will have a good time

[BYUFAN]

Is BYU more of a run or pass team? What is your offensive and defensive positives and negatives?

Robert Anae came over from Texas Tech last year to be our offensive coordinator. So at the first of the season we passed, passed, passed. He finally figured out we had two very good RB's towards the end of the season. We should be pretty balanced this year.

Here are our Offensive Positives- (Last season's stats)
Sr. John Beck QB- 3,700 passing yards, #5 in the nation passing YPG.
Sr. Jonny Harline TE- Statistically the top returning TE in the nation. 63 Rec, 850 yards.
Sr. Curtis Brown RB- 1,123 rushing, 454 yards receiving on 53 receptions. 16 TD's.

Offensive Negatives-
We lose our leading WR in Todd Watkins- drafted by the Cardinals. After that our WR's are pretty young and unproven. The O-line has been injured most of the spring. They are a big question mark.

Here are our defensive positives-
Good linebackers......that's about it. We pretty much lost our whole D-line, but that could be a good thing. Last year our line played injured, out of position, and in a bad scheme. This year should be an improvement.

Defensive Negatives-
Our secondary was one of the worst in the nation last year. But we are banking on some new recruits, new scheme (from a 3-3-5 to a 4-3-4), and less injuries.

[WildcatPaulG]

I love a 3-3-5. I wonder why Bronco switched out of it. He lived by that defense for so long.

There will come a point in time where you don't have the decent running attack... that is when Anae will go back to pass, pass, pass... and if that doesn't work... pass.

Beck... :roll:... everytime I think of him, I just think of his breakdown at the press conference his freshman year... "I hate to lose... *sob sob*"

[BYUFAN]

I love a 3-3-5. I wonder why Bronco switched out of it. He lived by that defense for so long.



Probably wised up to the fact that it is hard to get quality DB's to come to BYU and the ones in the program were not getting the job done. I'm serious when I say that our DB's last year were the worst that I have ever seen in my entire life. I think as a team the DB's had ONE interception last year. It was ugly and painful to watch.

As for Beck, I'm not a huge fan. He is very mechanical and the minute he has to improvise, he has problems. We'll see what happens this year, but I will be glad when we can move on to a new era of Cougar QB's.

[WildcatPaulG]

Too bad you couldn't hang onto Ben Olson.

Beck has problems... but it could be worse. You could still have Matt Berry.

[BYUFAN]

Too bad you couldn't hang onto Ben Olson.

Beck has problems... but it could be worse. You could still have Matt Berry.

From what I hear out of the UCLA camp, little Ben may not be the best QB on the team afterall.

What do you know about Max Hall? He transferred (or is transferring) from ASU to BYU this year and many say he is our QB of the future.

[WildcatPaulG]

I don't really pay attention to anything coming out of Tempe Community College, so I couldn't give you an accurate assessment on the abilities of Max Hall.

[PTCat]

This is my first post here, but just the fact that he left Tempe Normal suggests that the kid is smart and will do well at BYU.

[phxcatfan]

If BYU's secondary is really that suspect Thomas is going to have 300+ rec yards.

[FMCoug]

If BYU's secondary is really that suspect Thomas is going to have 300+ rec yards.

Sadly, our secondary last year was nicknamed "career day" by us fans. They had the knack of making journeyman QB's look like Heisman candidates. We think they'll be better this year but we'll see.

[phxcatfan]

:lol2: 'career day' that's funny...i am expecting a lot of points. how is BYU's ground game?

[FMCoug]

We feel good about the offense overall. In terms of the ground game, Sr. RB Curtis Brown is coming off an 1123 yard / 14 TD year and is on track to become the all-time leading rusher at BYU this year. We lost a great back in Fahu Tahi to the NFL but have another one just off a mission (Fui Vapakuna) who looks to be quite a load. We have a great tight end in Johnny Harline and a solid receiving corps.

In short, we expect to have a GREAT offense and are hoping for an average defense. I expect a lot of points as well.

[Cougarbandit]

Looking from the outside in, it seems like you're getting one of your two top JC DL recruits. Is that right?

From my perspective, the outcome of the game hinges on two factors.

1. Who loses the most turnovers.

2. Can your defensive front get enough pressure to throw John Beck off his rhythm? Our OL is pretty solid, especially on pass protection and doesn't get beat often without blitzes. If the defense doesn't pressure him within three seconds, BYU can use the whole field with the passing game.

How's your depth at DL?

If either of these factors swings mainly in UofA's favor, you'll probably win. If not, it has potential to be a real exciting game.

You've got terrific receivers and a great sophomore QB. One problem for Tuitama may be that BYU's defense is employing a new scheme this year. It may take him some time to adjust to where the pressure will come from and the new coverage. Despite BYU scrapping the 3-3-5 theis year, Coach Mendenhall hasn't changed his defensive philosophy - he'll still mix it up and get as much pressure on the QB as he can.

[ASUHATER!]

our dl is not the best in the world but it is very deep. even if beck does get more than 3 seconds, we do have a top 3 or 4 secondary in the nation...soo that will help with any lack of a pass rush. and with holmes lining up on the end, expect him to be in the backfield in less than 3 seconds.

[Whitney64]

Is BYU more of a run or pass team? What is your offensive and defensive positives and negatives?

Although BYU is running a Texas Tech style spread offense, it really is a hybrid and closer to BYU's original pro-set design that was part of the "West Coast Offense" devised by LaVell Edwards,and his friends Ted Tollner and Bill Walsh. BYU will run from single back, and two back setups, and will play shotgun against teams that blitz a lot as well.

But having said that, BYU can and will run the pants off teams. They have a huge and strong O-Line that likes to hit and run blocks extremely well. They have six backs that would probably start at half the teams in the PAC-10 and that is saying a lot considering the quality of the offenses in the PAC-10. If they can run on you, they will...and if they run then the passing game will open up a lot for them regardless of how good the secondary is. Most of BYU's receivers are fast, have good hands, run great routes and get to the delivery spot better than any group I have ever seen play there. The two Sr. TE's are NFL draft choices next year with Harline an enormous deep threat. He'll punish a corner or a safety if he hits them and he can flat out play them to the ball.

Game plan? I honestly expect BYU will test the ground game early, mostly (if I were Anae) on 2nd down. I think BYU should throw on 1st down and keep that improved Arizona defense on it's heels. But if the Cougars are constantly sitting at 2nd and 1-6 ytg, then it's going to be a long night for Arizona. If BYU foolishly tries to run on 1st down of does with little success and then tries to pass on 2nd and third downs, it could be a long night for BYU.

As for having a great secondary, honestly the DB's are so exposed after 4 seconds. If a team does NOT get a good pass rush, then no matter how good the DB's are, they will get burned. I really think UA was better defensively than their stats showed last year....hoiw much better remains to be seen. Clearly Arizona State and Washington piled up about 1000 yards between them on Arizona at the end of the season. That's not very impressive. I think having a good DL get to BYU's QB is the key. They do, UA wins. They don't UA looses and possibly by a bunch.

[Whitney64]

Probably wised up to the fact that it is hard to get quality DB's to come to BYU and the ones in the program were not getting the job done. I'm serious when I say that our DB's last year were the worst that I have ever seen in my entire life. I think as a team the DB's had ONE interception last year. It was ugly and painful to watch.

As for Beck, I'm not a huge fan. He is very mechanical and the minute he has to improvise, he has problems. We'll see what happens this year, but I will be glad when we can move on to a new era of Cougar QB's.

WELL YOU MIGHT NOT BE A FAN OF BECK....

But the NFL is drooling over him. Trust me, he's the real deal. Intersting note, he's beefed up to 220 lbs as well, arms and legs like telephone polls. It has not apparently affected his ability to throw on target. He's very accrurate. It hasn't hurt his 4.67 speed either.

[Whitney64]

Looking at your box scores from last season, your secondary does look impressive. Hopefully our offensive coordinator has learned from his first year on the job. Your run defense seems suspect. Do you run a 3-4 or a 4-3?

How many box scores did you look at :lol2: ?

I mean Ariaona finished the season ranked #72/119 (225 YPG) in Pass defense with healthy players. Your BYU finished 104th with no starters on the field after game four and mostly 2nd, 3rd and 4th stringers finning in the remainder of the season. Arizona did finish 66th in Pasee Efficency Defense and BYU 105th. But the point is, I don't get from the box scores what you seem to be getting. They had a great game against a horrible defensive UCLA team (Bruins finished 113th in the country 468 YPG)...and UA squeeked out a win over OSU and that was about it.

Look UA returns 17 starters. Sometimes that means a team has played so many youngsters they are going to be better. BYU fielded just such a team last year. They parleyed it into a 6-6 record that arguably COULD have been 8-4 or 4-8 pretty easily. But that offense returns for BYU and will be great. UA is probably further behind where BYU was a year ago and with less depth and proven talent than BYU had a year ago. UA will be better I believe, but not as good as they should have been in a conference where defenses were regularly giving up 500 yards.

Defensively, I think the jury is out on both these teams. I like the talent levels that both UA and BYU have. But UA has more playing experience. Advantage to UA, but sometimes a whole new crop of starters just take over the game and excell. I would NOT be surprised if BYU did that. The last six years BYU has produced 4 upper division (59>Better ranked) team defenses, ...UA just 1. Of those six defenses, two of BYU's finished ranked in the top 25 and a third was to 40...UA had 1 team finish better than 61.....

[CatintheHeat]

One of the problems last season was the offense was enemic until Tuitama started. Arizona was actually close to USC when the 4th quarter started, but the defense spent a disproportionate time on the field and wore out at the end of games. UA has more quality depth this season so the fatigue factor won't be as apparant. Let alone the offense may increase their time of possession over last season.

[Whitney64]

2. Can your defensive front get enough pressure to throw John Beck off his rhythm? Our OL is pretty solid, especially on pass protection and doesn't get beat often without blitzes. If the defense doesn't pressure him within three seconds, BYU can use the whole field with the passing game....


Actually, this year most scouts rate BYU's O-Line very high with their run blocking skills. Beck is a fairly mobile guy and sometimes they can make OT's look better than they are, but the two returning starters out there were beaten and assessed 0 and 3 sacks respectively all year so they can pass protect. But this team wants to hit and run the ball as well. The backs are 3 deep at two spots and 3rd line TB, Ray Hudson would probably start in most PAC-10 programs, definately as UA.

[catgrad97]

:roll:

I'm sorry, but Arizona goes four-deep at tailback this season and would have nowhere to put Ray Hudson.

He MIGHT be third-string in this offense. Might. Wouldn't start, though.

[Whitney64]

:roll:

I'm sorry, but Arizona goes four-deep at tailback this season and would have nowhere to put Ray Hudson.

He MIGHT be third-string in this offense. Might. Wouldn't start, though.

I've seen your running backs...sorry, we'll have to disagree on this one. I do know a lot coaches that would agree with me as well...probably a few of your own!

[catgrad97]

Please, enlighten the board then. What Arizona football coaches are so high on Ray Hudson that they would take him over Chris Henry, a four-star recruit, and a five-star transfer from Texas?

[Whitney64]

Give it a rest.... I mean really, it's hype until he does something. That UA averages only 351 yards per game last year against arguably 7 of the worst defenses a conference ever fielded is really a statement about how bad it was and might be. Not one prognosticator thinks Arizona has a running game this year. Hey we could be wrong...but lets see it proved first!

[catgrad97]

Give it a rest.... I mean really, it's hype until he does something.

So, in other words, you really DON'T know "a lot coaches that would agree" with you about Hudson over Arizona's running backs--much less a few of our own coaches. Just checking. :tup:

That UA averages only 351 yards per game last year against arguably 7 of the worst defenses a conference ever fielded is really a statement about how bad it was and might be.

Man, give THIS a rest already.

What conference do you think we're talking about here? The SWAC? The Sun Belt?

"Seven of the worst defenses a conference ever fielded"? Way off, buddy. So far from accurate it's not even on the same continent.

Arizona has had a tradition of tough, nationally-ranked defense going back even before BYU and Bo Schembechler complained their way into the "National Championship" Holiday Bowl. You want to let the statistics of the residue of the Mackovic years cloud your judgment of this, go right ahead.

But only a casual observer of the Pac-10 with absolutely no recollection of Desert Storm, Ricky Hunley or top-three college defenses nationally before 2001 predicts Arizona's defense to founder this season. It just isn't going to happen, and Stoops has the talent, depth, recruits and experience to prove it.

[Whitney64]

So, in other words, you really DON'T know "a lot coaches that would agree" with you about Hudson over Arizona's running backs--much less a few of our own coaches. Just checking. :tup:



Man, give THIS a rest already.

What conference do you think we're talking about here? The SWAC? The Sun Belt?

"Seven of the worst defenses a conference ever fielded"? Way off, buddy. So far from accurate it's not even on the same continent.

Arizona has had a tradition of tough, nationally-ranked defense going back even before BYU and Bo Schembechler complained their way into the "National Championship" Holiday Bowl. You want to let the statistics of the residue of the Mackovic years cloud your judgment of this, go right ahead.

But only a casual observer of the Pac-10 with absolutely no recollection of Desert Storm, Ricky Hunley or top-three college defenses nationally before 2001 predicts Arizona's defense to founder this season. It just isn't going to happen, and Stoops has the talent, depth, recruits and experience to prove it.


Guess you MISSED this earlier:

2) Arizona gave up over 408 YPG. Is THAT something to brag about? Arizona returns a group of guys with a lot of hype who were mostly healthy and still simply awful. What I am saying here is, let's have a reality check. I would wait and see what Arizona does before we assume they've really improved that much. BYU finished the 2003 season ranked 14th in the nation in total defense (lost only one starter to injuries all year and that guy is now all BIG-12 and an AA candidate as a senior over at Oklahoma where he transferred after some honor code issues at BYU). The 2004-05 teams were hit hard by serious injuries in the fall camp and more honor code boots. This year's team resembles that 2003 BYU squad a lot...both in terms of depth and quality of healthy players so far. Just a thought on their "weak" defense. Arizona finished in the following years in total defense (NCAA RANK and top HALF percentile finishes in RED, top 40 in BLUE):

YEAR Arizona Defense ........BYU Defense
1999 (69, 377.8 YPG) ....... (21, 308.3 YPG)
2000 (21, 317.5 YPG) ....... (40, 345.8 YPG)
2001 (76, 398.4 YPG) .......(102, 448.5 YPG)
2002 (72, 386.2 YPG) .......(69, 384.7 YPG)
2003 (109,460.0 YPG) ....... (14, 307.0 YPG)
2004 (61, 379.4 YPG) ....... (59, 377.3 YPG)
2005 (81, 408.8 YPG) ....... (91, 417.2 YPG)

Average rank in the last six years (Arizona 71, BYU 66)

The last highly respectable defense Arizona fielded was in the year 2000. In the last six seasons, Arizona has fielded only ONE defense that finished in the TOP HALF (59/119 or higher) of all Division 1A teams (BYU has done this 4 times). No body would argue that the competition isn't greater in the PAC-10, but not that much greater and offensively, the two conferences these teams play in are use to lighting up scoreboards.

I am simply trying to put things in perspective for you. BYU is not always the defensive pushover you sort of think, and Arizona is not always the defensive power you have imagined.

As a conference, The PAC-10 defenses finished the season ranked (after Bowls) as follows: (Team, YPG, NCAA Rank)

Oregon (358/#44)
Cal (360/#46)
SoCAL (362/#48)
Oregon State (407/#84) (The MWC onlt had two teams below this mark)
Arizona (409/#86)
Washington (419/#94)
Stanford (442/#105)
Washington State (443/#106)
UCLA (468/#113)
Arizona State (469/#114)

Regardless of what anyone thinks, this is simply awful.

If it's any consolation, the PAC-10's hated rivals from the BIG-10 were probably worse.... with 8 of 11 teams finishing at or below #67 (remember the mean is #59-60). It was so bad, 7 of 11 Big 10 schools finished at #87 or lower... (the bottom quartile is at #88-89 boundary). We're talking big time BCS programs folks. 5 of 11 Big-10 schools finished below BYU, 7 of 11 below Arizona.

I won't get into the plethora of reasons I think some of these statistics are a bit over rated...and style of play has a lot to do with it at times, but the fact is, the BIG-10 did produce three excellent team defenses as well, at Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan... but Michigan did not have enough offense to make it work for them and finished with a 7-5 season.
The PAC-10's closest three teams were USC, Oregon and CAL...then an enormous gap to OSU and UA.

Also Colorado State was lit up so badly in it's bowl game that they dropped to bottom of the conference in team states and behind both Air Force and BYU in total defense by year end. The MWC had 5 of 9 teams give up more than 400 yards per game as well...but they are not a BCS conference, play most of ther big time OOC opponents on the road and so one would expect that. Notwithstanding the above, ALL but three MWC teams finished ahead of Arizona in Team Defense and better than Oregon State, the 4th best defense in the PAC-10 conference.

[gusties]

Hey guys, I'm new to posting on this board, but I've been observing and absorbing for quite awhile now.
I've just been reading Whitney64's garbage all day, and I've come to a few conclusions. . .
1) It seems to me that a sportswriter as knowledgable as he claims to be would probably be writing a story or something, rather than spending an entire afternoon posting on a messageboard that he's not affiliated with.
2) If that same "sportswriter" happens to start posting when a particular game is approaching, and all he can talk about is how the 'Cats are going to get waxed, he's probably just a Homer for the other team, and trying to enflame. . .
3) If the same "sportswriter" has at least three different predictions as to how the game will end, he's probably got multiple personalities and should spend his afternoon looking for a decent psychiatrist, rather than on this messageboard.
And I quote. . .
a)"Right now I see the AU-BYU game about the same as the Harmon
Forecast. BYU really is that good." (28-13) (That's a 15 pt spread.)
b)"I think BYU wins by 3-7 pts."
c) I can't find it, but it seems like he called a 10 point spread somewhere.
4) Any sportwriter who claims to cover the Pac-10, and also claims to have 34 years of experience doing so, yet still calls U of A "AU", either has no idea what he is talking about, or, once again, is trying to enflame.

Finally, Whitney64, why do you tout your statistics as though they are the "end all" to any conversation, but yet you talk about other statistics as though they are overrated.
You keep saying that you are a fan of the Pac, but yet all you talk about is how great the MWC is.
I just don't understand all of the inconsistencies, and lack of theme from such an experienced sportwriter:confused:

[UA Direct]

Isn't Arizona a 9 point favorite in Vegas? Those are the guys who REALLY know their stuff.



Arizona - BYU

2005 (81, 408.8 YPG) ....... (91, 417.2 YPG)


I was in the 'close game' camp until you posted that. I'll take a #81 defense (in the offensive minded Pac-10) who loses only 2 defensive contributers (with major upgrades) over a #91 defense from an also ran conference.

Ranking a defense on total yards allowed is irrelevent. Did BYU face USC last year? That would have been good for about 7-800 yards by the end of the 3rd quarter.

Our line will be almost twice as good this year. Our linebackers will be much better due to depth and health (we lose nothing, and they never once played together last year), and our secondary will be sick. Top 3 in the nation sick.

I don't think the BYU players have faced this much speed, and that includes last years Cal team.

Tui and Co. are so going to light BYU up. The Cougar offense won't even know what hit them.

Enjoy the smothering heat fellas.

[byudog]

Oh no, not the ignorant--BYU doesn't face guys with speed argument again! You guys don't realize--BYU has their own bit of speed, also...

We have 2 Texas 5A wide reciever's of the year(this is Texas now)--Michael Reed and McKay Jacobson. you don't suppose they are fast enough? Mckay Jacobson can run like a 4.3, is around 6.0 tall with great hands and moves. Led Texas last year on the NATIONS BEST HIGH SCHOOL TEAM. He was fast enough to be recruited by Florida St. for TRACK! Track and field! Not football. He's a white dude too and he can probably run around a 10.3 or 10.4 in the 100 meters.

Our 2nd RB on the depth chart--Fui Vakapuna can run a 4.4. He's mean and nasty too. I expect Fui to have arond 50 yards or more on AZ's D. He's strong. He'll stiffarm your defenders. Probably bowl over little Fontenot.

Even John Beck is reasonably fast for a QB--runs around a 4.6. More fast than quick though.

BYU's defense--especially since it is loaded at LB, will show AZ more than enough speed. OUr LB's are gonna be chasing Tuitama all night long and I expect at least 3 sacks. The switch to a 3-4 was made cuz we have like 8 LB"s who are awesome! This position is extremely deep and experienced. The DL will be talented, but not so experienced. The secondary should be improved. I expect BYU's D to finish at least in the top-50 this year and that will be enough to beat AZ.

BYU has beaten teams with speed before--G-Tech, Syracuse, Miss-St AT Miss-st... You guys forget that Utah consistently has a strong defense and yes--speedy secondary. No big deal. AZ is just another Utah. They won't be a pushover, but the game is winnable. If I recall--AZ lost to Utah last year and BYU went to OT with Utah. Cal couldn't stop BYU and we would have won with any sort of real secondary...

Keep your eyes open AZ fans and realize this is not gonna be some walk in the park for AZ. I'm warning you now.

I doubt Tuitama has more than 200 passing yards against us.

The smothering heat has been everywhere--TX, where I live, AZ, Utah, practically everywhere. Shouldn't bother the Cougs that much. Sides--they should have better stamina practicing in thin air all the time..

[byudog]

Please, enlighten the board then. What Arizona football coaches are so high on Ray Hudson that they would take him over Chris Henry, a four-star recruit, and a five-star transfer from Texas?

I think Whitney is saying we are deep at RB, which BYU is and also that AZ's much hyped backs still have things to DO.

Ultimately it doesn't matter whether a recruit is 5-star or 4-star, albeit that is a good indication of good things to come--a recruit still has to perform on the college level.
BYU got a great 5-star recruit not too long ago out of TX--Ofa Mohetau. Well, he was big and mean and strong I'm sure, but he didn't pan out and stay at BYU. Rumor was he wasn't willing to work hard enough.

So guys don't always pan out. Maybe AZ's RB will in time. They also need a solid Offensive-line to help them out.

We have like 5 RB's who are very solid. I haven't seen BYU this loaded at RB, fior a long, long time. I don't remember them having this many good backs since '96 when I started following the Cougs a lot. Solid at RB and fullback. Got experience, power and some speed. Some of those fullbacks like Tonga or Unga may blow AZ away... Just wait. Not just powerful, but have some suprising speed for their big size...

[gusties]

BYUDog,
You've got to use some consistency. . . In this thread, you state

"AZ's much hyped backs still have things to DO.

Ultimately it doesn't matter whether a recruit is 5-star or 4-star, albeit that is a good indication of good things to come--a recruit still has to perform on the college level.
BYU got a great 5-star recruit not too long ago out of TX--Ofa Mohetau. Well, he was big and mean and strong I'm sure, but he didn't pan out and stay at BYU. Rumor was he wasn't willing to work hard enough."

Yet, in 10 minutes before that, you went all googley over some Freshman wide receiver who has tremendous speed. . .well, he may be fast, but that says nothing about his football speed, or whether he can catch a ball or not at this level.
You can't have that both ways. . .

[byudog]

Fine then.

Let me go further. Mckay Jackobson was the fastest guy on the team coming into spring ball and why? Because he graduated early to come to BYU and work on football to get an edge! What does that say about the young man's character?

He can clearly catch the ball as he led the nation's top-ranked high school team. He was recruited by gobs of big name schools. Funny how his stock magically dropped when he commited to BYU...

He will be familiar with BYU's offense for 2 reasons. #1--he came to BYU early to work in the spring and summer on football. Had to sacrifice his summer fun and hanging out with the boys, but it may pay off. #2. The system they had at Southlake Carroll high school is similar to BYU's offense in some ways. Not a real hard transition, etc..

Does Jackobson have things to prove? Sure and so do the highly touted RB's at AZ.

[phxcatfan]

Let me go further. Mckay Jackobson was the fastest guy on the team coming into spring ball and why? Because he graduated early to come to BYU and work on football to get an edge! What does that say about the young man's character?

Look, I don't care how 'fast' kk is..he's going to be put in a bodybag by the UA secondary.

[UofAcat23]

I like how the thread title says "From a BYUFAN" and the creator's name is "byufan"

[byudog]

Look, I don't care how 'fast' kk is..he's going to be put in a bodybag by the UA secondary.

I doubt it. More like one of our big ol tight ends will lay wood to the AZ secondary and spring speedy McKay free for a TD. :)

ALso, Jakobson and Mike Hague(M-Hog) will be returning kicks, etc.. Cool.

Gotta catch them first! :)

[cridkid]

"Mckay Jacobson can run like a 4.3..."

Actually his 40 time is listed as 4.47 on rivals.com, but I guess that's like a 4.3. It's just .17 seconds slower.

[ByJoveByJingle]

"Mckay Jacobson can run like a 4.3..."

Actually his 40 time is listed as 4.47 on rivals.com, but I guess that's like a 4.3. It's just .17 seconds slower.

At BYU 4.47 is the equivalent of 4.3 in a BCS conference. There is a logic here . . . you just have to be a bit creative.

[PerpEph]

I doubt Tuitama has more than 200 passing yards against us.



And I highly doubt he has any less than 300. In fact, I'm guessing he goes off for about 350.

We'll have to revist this in about 9 days or so. Of course, we could both be off, and he could toss for 250 or so, but I think you're going to be in for a rude awakening on 9/2.

Tuitama is the real deal. Mike Thomas is lightning fast. And apparently our other receivers have improved quite a bit.

We'll see.

[byudog]

And I highly doubt he has any less than 300. In fact, I'm guessing he goes off for about 350.

We'll have to revist this in about 9 days or so. Of course, we could both be off, and he could toss for 250 or so, but I think you're going to be in for a rude awakening on 9/2.

Tuitama is the real deal. Mike Thomas is lightning fast. And apparently our other receivers have improved quite a bit.

We'll see.

Well, coaches seem to be pretty high on Tui. Maybe he'll eek out 220 yards passing. :)

A lot of teams that have not faced Mendenhall on defense before and are familiar with the way BYU disguises things a lot, can have some trouble with their QB's sometimes. If BYU can rattle Tui into taking some sacks, throwing a pic or two, then it will provide an easy opporunity for the offense to score.

[byudog]

"Mckay Jacobson can run like a 4.3..."

Actually his 40 time is listed as 4.47 on rivals.com, but I guess that's like a 4.3. It's just .17 seconds slower.

McKay has been timed running a 4.3. He was the fastest guy on the team in spring, beating out veterans, etc..

The Rivals news is old. He likely timed a 4.3 at another camp or at BYU.

[cridkid]

McKay has been timed running a 4.3. He was the fastest guy on the team in spring, beating out veterans, etc..

The Rivals news is old. He likely timed a 4.3 at another camp or at BYU.

You can't just say he was timed running a 4.3. You have to provide some kind of documentation. I might believe a 4.40 which would still probably make him the fastest on the team. Very few D-1 football players, even at the skill positions, run under a 4.4. For him to jump from a 4.47 in the spring to a 4.30 in the summer is extremely unlikely (without the use of steroids or HGH). Show the source and we'll believe you. Otherwise you are just making stuff up.

[byudog]

You can't just say he was timed running a 4.3. You have to provide some kind of documentation. I might believe a 4.40 which would still probably make him the fastest on the team. Very few D-1 football players, even at the skill positions, run under a 4.4. For him to jump from a 4.47 in the spring to a 4.30 in the summer is extremely unlikely (without the use of steroids or HGH). Show the source and we'll believe you. Otherwise you are just making stuff up.

Cridkid,

I found a link where it showed him at 4.36, but that was for high school. WE all know high school times use stop-watches generally and thus not that accurate. I also thought I read that he ran a 4.3 somewhere else--that one of the newspaper articles said thus or perhaps BYU coaches timed him at such.

ANyways, the 4.47 was at Palo Alto, California and electronic timing. Considering that was high school, it's not that much of a stretch to think McKay can improve that time by 1-tenths of a second, with an experienced college strength and conditioning coach and weight, speed training... The same with Thomas. He may have ran a 4.4 flat electronic(not sure) and if so, going to a 4.39 or under is easily conceivable. Both could be running a legit 4.3something at this time.

[cridkid]

Cridkid,

I found a link where it showed him at 4.36, but that was for high school. WE all know high school times use stop-watches generally and thus not that accurate. I also thought I read that he ran a 4.3 somewhere else--that one of the newspaper articles said thus or perhaps BYU coaches timed him at such.

ANyways, the 4.47 was at Palo Alto, California and electronic timing. Considering that was high school, it's not that much of a stretch to think McKay can improve that time by 1-tenths of a second, with an experienced college strength and conditioning coach and weight, speed training... The same with Thomas. He may have ran a 4.4 flat electronic(not sure) and if so, going to a 4.39 or under is easily conceivable. Both could be running a legit 4.3something at this time.

Now that's more like it! The point,which you seem to acknowlege in your post, is: high school 40 times are almost always faster than what the player really is. A coach has a quick thumb (or slow thumb if it's at the start) one time and that time is forever advertised as that player's 40 time. Of course this serves a purpose in the recruiting process.

Like I mentioned, I could conceive a 4.40-ish, but to drop from a 4.47 to a legit 4.3 is unlikely. Hey, but if Jose Conseco ran a 4.2, then I guess anything is possible.

I'll ask my little bro. who plays DB for the Cougars if he thinks McKay is that fast.

Arizona 35 : BYU 31 Tuitama lights up the BYU secondary (except for Criddle).

Bear Down!

[cridkid]

Sorry, I didn't give him full credit. Jose Conseco ran a 3.9 in his prime. Now he runs a 4.2.

Go Cats.

[byudog]

Now that's more like it! The point,which you seem to acknowlege in your post, is: high school 40 times are almost always faster than what the player really is. A coach has a quick thumb (or slow thumb if it's at the start) one time and that time is forever advertised as that player's 40 time. Of course this serves a purpose in the recruiting process.

Like I mentioned, I could conceive a 4.40-ish, but to drop from a 4.47 to a legit 4.3 is unlikely. Hey, but if Jose Conseco ran a 4.2, then I guess anything is possible.

I'll ask my little bro. who plays DB for the Cougars if he thinks McKay is that fast.

Arizona 35 : BYU 31 Tuitama lights up the BYU secondary (except for Criddle).

Bear Down!


Is Criddle your boy(bro)? That's cool, if so. Criddle sounds like he could start at one spot for the Cougs--say Kayle's. Criddle sounds like a tough player, hard hitter... Just want the DB's to step up.

I'm not saying 4.3 flat electronic also, just a 4.3something... 4.39...

[kylecollins]

Sorry, I didn't give him full credit. Jose Conseco ran a 3.9 in his prime. Now he runs a 4.2.

Go Cats.
What?

And havnt we already gone over this? In football a 4.30 is a big differnce between 4.3somthin, especially 4.39.

[cridkid]

What?

And havnt we already gone over this? In football a 4.30 is a big differnce between 4.3somthin, especially 4.39.

I guess you don't get the joke. Jose Conseco told Jim Rome a few years ago in an interview that he ran a 3.9 forty yard dash in his prime. Rome basically laughed at him and said the Carl Lewis couldn't have done close to that in his prime. Conseco wasn't joking and insisted he had run such a time.

And yes, there is a big difference between a 4.39 and a 4.30.

[cridkid]

Is Criddle your boy(bro)? That's cool, if so. Criddle sounds like he could start at one spot for the Cougs--say Kayle's. Criddle sounds like a tough player, hard hitter... Just want the DB's to step up.

I'm not saying 4.3 flat electronic also, just a 4.3something... 4.39...

I did talk to my brother today. They don't time the forty in their camps or practices, but he does seem to think Jacobson runs under 4.4 and is the fastest on the team. So I'll give you that one.

I wouldn't expect too much from a true freshman in his first game though. Especially against Arizona's secondary.

Oh, and yes, my brother apparently will be starting opposite Justin Robinson on the weak side. He expects a 3 CB rotation with Kayle spelling both the field and weak side CB's. Buckner is expected to redshirt. They will have their hands full.

[StoopsTroops]

Well, coaches seem to be pretty high on Tui. Maybe he'll eek out 220 yards passing. :)

A lot of teams that have not faced Mendenhall on defense before and are familiar with the way BYU disguises things a lot, can have some trouble with their QB's sometimes. If BYU can rattle Tui into taking some sacks, throwing a pic or two, then it will provide an easy opporunity for the offense to score.

Ya, Mendenhall disguises his defense so well, they gave up 417.2 ypg last year. What were they disguised as, tree stumps? The funniest part to this is that everyone knows it was almost all passing yards. So tell me, how is a quality QB with quality receivers going to 'eek' out 220 yards? Are we talking by halftime? Again, Tui isn't really a headcase, and thus doesn't get rattled. He has thrown his share of picks and gone right back down to throw one right by the D. I don't know where you come up with this stuff, but I sincerely hope to knock you off your lofty clouds so you can join the rest of us down here.

[StoopsTroops]

Guess you MISSED this earlier:

2) Arizona gave up over 408 YPG. Is THAT something to brag about? Arizona returns a group of guys with a lot of hype who were mostly healthy and still simply awful. What I am saying here is, let's have a reality check. I would wait and see what Arizona does before we assume they've really improved that much. BYU finished the 2003 season ranked 14th in the nation in total defense (lost only one starter to injuries all year and that guy is now all BIG-12 and an AA candidate as a senior over at Oklahoma where he transferred after some honor code issues at BYU). The 2004-05 teams were hit hard by serious injuries in the fall camp and more honor code boots. This year's team resembles that 2003 BYU squad a lot...both in terms of depth and quality of healthy players so far. Just a thought on their "weak" defense. Arizona finished in the following years in total defense (NCAA RANK and top HALF percentile finishes in RED, top 40 in BLUE):

YEAR Arizona Defense ........BYU Defense
1999 (69, 377.8 YPG) ....... (21, 308.3 YPG)
2000 (21, 317.5 YPG) ....... (40, 345.8 YPG)
2001 (76, 398.4 YPG) .......(102, 448.5 YPG)
2002 (72, 386.2 YPG) .......(69, 384.7 YPG)
2003 (109,460.0 YPG) ....... (14, 307.0 YPG)
2004 (61, 379.4 YPG) ....... (59, 377.3 YPG)
2005 (81, 408.8 YPG) ....... (91, 417.2 YPG)

Average rank in the last six years (Arizona 71, BYU 66)

The last highly respectable defense Arizona fielded was in the year 2000. In the last six seasons, Arizona has fielded only ONE defense that finished in the TOP HALF (59/119 or higher) of all Division 1A teams (BYU has done this 4 times). No body would argue that the competition isn't greater in the PAC-10, but not that much greater and offensively, the two conferences these teams play in are use to lighting up scoreboards.

I am simply trying to put things in perspective for you. BYU is not always the defensive pushover you sort of think, and Arizona is not always the defensive power you have imagined.

As a conference, The PAC-10 defenses finished the season ranked (after Bowls) as follows: (Team, YPG, NCAA Rank)

Oregon (358/#44)
Cal (360/#46)
SoCAL (362/#48)
Oregon State (407/#84) (The MWC onlt had two teams below this mark)
Arizona (409/#86)
Washington (419/#94)
Stanford (442/#105)
Washington State (443/#106)
UCLA (468/#113)
Arizona State (469/#114)

Regardless of what anyone thinks, this is simply awful.

If it's any consolation, the PAC-10's hated rivals from the BIG-10 were probably worse.... with 8 of 11 teams finishing at or below #67 (remember the mean is #59-60). It was so bad, 7 of 11 Big 10 schools finished at #87 or lower... (the bottom quartile is at #88-89 boundary). We're talking big time BCS programs folks. 5 of 11 Big-10 schools finished below BYU, 7 of 11 below Arizona.

I won't get into the plethora of reasons I think some of these statistics are a bit over rated...and style of play has a lot to do with it at times, but the fact is, the BIG-10 did produce three excellent team defenses as well, at Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan... but Michigan did not have enough offense to make it work for them and finished with a 7-5 season.
The PAC-10's closest three teams were USC, Oregon and CAL...then an enormous gap to OSU and UA.

Also Colorado State was lit up so badly in it's bowl game that they dropped to bottom of the conference in team states and behind both Air Force and BYU in total defense by year end. The MWC had 5 of 9 teams give up more than 400 yards per game as well...but they are not a BCS conference, play most of ther big time OOC opponents on the road and so one would expect that. Notwithstanding the above, ALL but three MWC teams finished ahead of Arizona in Team Defense and better than Oregon State, the 4th best defense in the PAC-10 conference.

What the hell are you talking about at the top? A group of healthy defenders that underperformed? At any given point, we were playing with no more than 3-4 of the front 7 that started the season. The team was laden with injury, which is why the run D was so bad...not enough depth and everyone and their families were injured. Get a clue what you are talking about.
Regarding the vaunted 2003 defense, congratulations!! WHO CARES! Last check on my calendar, we are in 2006. How many carryovers are there left from that defense? Oh, none? What about the defense that finished 91st last year? Oh, some are back, but there are freshman too? Sounds like you have a winner there. I would LOVE to see what kind of numbers your defense would allow playing in the Pac. Ya, ya, MWC has potent offenses as well, but how many Bushs, Whites, Leinarts, Lynchs, Harrisons, etc do you have running around...you know, the ones constantly mentioned in All-American talks...the same ones we face every single week? Oh, none of those...and still only 91st in the country? I thought you were saying the BYU D is just as good? Ah, forget it...you'll find out soon enough. That is IF we can stop the (ahem) most potent (apparently) offense this side of the year 1985.