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View Full Version : Official "Parity: Version 2009" Thread.


azlax04
09-12-2009, 07:29 PM
May as well start it.

Week 1 we saw:

20th ranked MountainWest BYU over 3rd ranked Big12 Oklahoma
14th ranked WAC Boise St. over 16th ranked Pac10 Oregon

Today we've seen:

unranked CUSA Houston over 5th ranked Big12 Oklahoma State.
unranked Michigan over 18th ranked Notre Dame.

MAC Central Michigan over Big 10(1) Michigan State
UCLA over Tennessee.

Cue meaningless ESPN blather in ...3 ..2 .1

CalStateTempe
09-12-2009, 07:29 PM
Awesome thread...

lets keep it going during the season.

Adam Hawes
09-12-2009, 07:37 PM
Don't forget week 1 BYU over UO, I know I never will. I mean, living in UT and all....

UofAcat23
09-12-2009, 07:38 PM
And Boise over Oregon

Adam Hawes
09-12-2009, 07:39 PM
And Boise over Oregon

Boise was favored in that game.

CalStateTempe
09-12-2009, 07:39 PM
UCLA over Tenn

UofAcat23
09-12-2009, 07:41 PM
Boise was favored in that game.

Regardless of the odds, I maintain that little ole boise beating big bad oregon is a sign of parity.

catgrad97
09-12-2009, 07:44 PM
#19 North Carolina barely won at UConn today 12-10.

I'm not sure if the mess Dan Hawkins has at 0-2 Colorado right now qualifies as parity or simply institutional mismanagement.

Taylor
09-13-2009, 01:09 AM
The Bye Week beat Asu 14-0.

SCCat
09-13-2009, 01:10 AM
The Bye Week beat Asu 14-0.

So the bye week didn't cover? ;)

Winger
09-13-2009, 10:26 AM
For me it all starts and ends with:

Utah Utes
31

Alabama Crimson Tide
17

the real dill
09-15-2009, 11:13 AM
#19 North Carolina barely won at UConn today 12-10.

I'm not sure if the mess Dan Hawkins has at 0-2 Colorado right now qualifies as parity or simply institutional mismanagement.

for those that missed it, NC won on a holding call in the endzone with a minute or so left in the game.

mcafee_04
09-15-2009, 12:40 PM
For me it all starts and ends with:

Utah Utes
31

Alabama Crimson Tide
17

I lost a Rolex on that one. Last time i've gambled.

Flipper
09-15-2009, 02:36 PM
I lost a Rolex on that one. Last time i've gambled.

How? Bought into the SEC hype, did you?:)

the real dill
09-15-2009, 03:53 PM
How? Bought into the SEC hype, did you?:)

a lot of people got burned on that game when Alabama's entire offensive line went mia just before the game with a suspension and multiple injuries. The team Utah beat was a shell of the team that was out there for the regular season. Not that Alabama shouldn't be able to beat Utah with only one regular starter on the O-line, because they should.

Merkin
09-22-2009, 03:43 PM
I lost a Rolex on that one. Last time i've gambled.

Hopefully it was your Nogales' Rolex.

AZ Golfer
09-22-2009, 08:44 PM
How? Bought into the SEC hype, did you?:)

Not so much hype as it is historical, proven performance.

Winger
09-22-2009, 08:48 PM
Not so much hype as it is historical, proven performance.

Like what for instance?

AZ Golfer
09-22-2009, 08:54 PM
Like what for instance?

I don't have the time to do it, but I've seen the breakdown somewhere...their out of conference win % amongst teams which compete, they have a better track record.

Anyone who watches college football knows it is the best conference year-in-year out....most of the time. Big 12 has made a push here and there, and may have taken that spot last year for a moment. The SEC West alone has 3 of the top 7 teams.

If you think differently, and have the time, I would love to hear the converse argument.

AZ Golfer
09-22-2009, 09:05 PM
And trust me, I spend many a hour sticking up for the PAC on SEC dominated boards. But alas, I believe the SEC is the best conference. Amount of talent in the SEC is unmatched imo.

Winger
09-22-2009, 09:05 PM
I don't have the time to do it.

You should you might learn something.

their out of conference win % amongst teams which compete, they have a better track record.

Don't totally understand that.

But, did you know the Pac 10 leads the SEC heads up the last ten years?

Did you know that the SECs OOC record is artificially elevated because they play more FCS, and non BCS FBS teams than anyone else, and they play a much higher % of their OOC games at home as well?

Anyone who watches college football knows it is the best conference year-in-year out....most of the time. Big 12 has made a push here and there, and may have taken that spot last year for a moment. The SEC West alone has 3 of the top 7 teams.

The "anybody who watches college football" arguement is the weakest one around, which SEC fan taught you that one? Next you'll be coming at me with "we have the best stadiums" and "the best tailgating" and "the best brats" and "the best fans", multiple things which are true but have zero relation to on field performance.

If you think differently, and have the time, I would love to hear the converse argument.

Look here ...

http://forum.goazcats.com/showpost.php?p=1252850&postcount=1

and here ...

http://forum.goazcats.com/showpost.php?p=1247191&postcount=7

and here ...

http://forum.goazcats.com/showpost.php?p=1056367&postcount=92

and most importantly here ...

http://forum.goazcats.com/showpost.php?p=1056396&postcount=1

But, before you do that, know that I also think that the SEC is the best conference, but, particularly when adjusted for 10 vs. 12 teams, the difference isn't as great as all the folks who make $$$$ off of the SEC would lead you to believe.

Also, the Pac 10 looks like crap to me this year, so far.

AZ Golfer
09-22-2009, 09:18 PM
I am so confused....are you arguing for or against?

Top to bottom, matched team for team to any of the conferences, I think they are the best....like you said, especially parred down to 10 teams.

Also (vs the PAC), when you take away non-factor games, ie Oregon vs Miss St, etc...you'll probably get some different results.


The "anybody who watches college football" arguement is the weakest one around. If you had a poll and asked a group of objective college football fans, which conference do you think they'd vote #1? Maybe it's the media coverage, I don't know. It is without doubt the most exciting conference in the nation imo...again, due to the media?....perhaps, but I don't think so.

I'll read the links in a little bit and will be sure to use the bullet points in my arguments on other boards. I'll cite them of course.

Edit: As for OOC match-ups, they are certainly doing things different as of late to get some better games earlier on in the season...everyone besides UF that is.

Winger
09-22-2009, 09:45 PM
I am so confused....are you arguing for or against?.

I literally can't argue this anymore, but I would argue against the "historical proven" nature of the "SEC rules" opinion.

And I would use last year's Alabama - Utah game as one of my examples. And I might follow up with UW-LSU this year, Oregon-Utah this year, etc. Further, I'd take the data from my Pac 10 vs. SEC thread to end it.

Top to bottom, matched team for team to any of the conferences, I think they are the best....like you said, especially parred down to 10 teams.

Took me inversely.

It's the gap I am gatting at.

When you adjust for 12 teams, the SEC pales by comparison, because everyone remembers the good and forgets the bad. This is why I think end of season Sagarin data (in the links above) is helpful.

Also (vs the PAC), when you take away non-factor games.

See, you can't take away "nonfactor" games and be intellectually honest.

If you had a poll and asked a group of objective college football fans.

This is frankly ridiculous.

There's no such thing as "objective college football fans", including this one.

And, I'd vote for the SEC too, but when the dismissive "USC and the Nine Dwarves" comes up, I end up feeling sorry for SEC fan and begin thinking of the Flat Earth Society, because they literally have nothing (except MNCs) to back their opinion up.

In fact, in my experience, when you argue with them, all you get is refutation of the truly objective data you bring. They bring nothing to the arguement of their own, beyond the "anyone who watches college football" bs.

Edit: As for OOC match-ups, they are certainly doing things different as of late to get some better games earlier on in the season...everyone besides UF that is.

You're completely totally wrong here.

The strength of the SECs OOC scheduling has consistently gotten worse since the advent of the BCS.

The BCS has enabled the SEC to stay at home, play FCS teams, and claim superiority based on preseason rankings, a 70% OOC win %, and the supposed toughness of their in conference scheduling that we are supposed to believe the previous two facs imply.

The whole thing is a freaking farce, and when you meet the Wizard behind the curtain you'll come back here and tell me I was right all along.

AZ Golfer
09-22-2009, 10:13 PM
:lol:

I like your style winger. But the fact remains we agree. :cheers:


One thing I am confused about...

This is why I think end of season Sagarin data (in the links above) is helpful.

Doesn't the avg (I didn't avg them, just eye balled) show that SEC is the best?


I can't get on board your OOC strength argument. Who is scheduling better OCC games these days? By the end of the weekend the SEC will have played 3 PAC schools. UGA, for instance, plays OK ST, ASU, and GA TECH. Not exactly cream puff. They are the extreme, I know. Who else does this besides USC in the PAC? Oregon? Alabama played Va Tech. Miss St has GA Tech coming up. ARK has A&M. AU had WVA last weekend. LSU had WA, TENN had UCLA...USC has NC State and Clemson. UF does have FSU every year.

Most of the teams have stepped it up.
.

Winger
09-22-2009, 10:20 PM
Doesn't the avg (I didn't avg them, just eye balled) show that SEC is the best?

Gotta READ the links bro ...

LAST TEN YEARS SAGARIN FINAL CONFERENCE RANKING

PAC
99 5
00 1
01 3
02 2
03 4
04 2
05 4
06 3
07 2
08 4
AVG 3.0

SEC
99 2
00 5
01 1
02 3
03 2
04 6
05 5
06 1
07 1
08 1
AVG 2.7

Pretty close .......

I can't get on board you OOC strength argument.

Truly no insult intended here, but if that is the case, you don't know wtf you're on board with.

2008 Schedule
OOC Games against D1-AA Opponents:
PAC 2
SEC 10

OOC Games against 2007 final poll Top 25 Ranked Opponents:
PAC 26%
SEC 13%
OOC Games at home:
PAC 65%
SEC 77%

The BCS scoreboard 2008

Games against I-AA teams: ACC (29 percent), Big East (25 percent), SEC (23 percent), Big Ten (21 percent), Big 12 (19 percent), Pac-10 (13 percent).

Games against BCS teams: Pac-10 (50 percent), ACC (42 percent), Big East (40 percent), Big Ten (32 percent), SEC (29 percent), Big 12 (23 percent).

Games against non-BCS, I-A teams: Big 12 (58 percent), Big Ten (48 percent), SEC (48 percent), Pac-10 (37 percent), Big East (35 percent), ACC (29 percent).

AZ Golfer
09-22-2009, 10:27 PM
So you're saying my eye balling was correct? ;)

I added a little more to the above on the OOC.

With all your data saying otherwise, why do you think the SEC is the best? You never stated that.

Winger
09-23-2009, 08:17 AM
With all your data saying otherwise, why do you think the SEC is the best? You never stated that.

That's a good question.

It's a sum of all of their accomplishments over the last 10 years, and this admittedly doesn't take into account the botom of the conference.

But, when you look at their number of victories against good OOC teams, their bowl record, the number of times they have finished #1 in Sagarin, and the number of very good teams they have each season - they come out 1st in my book. Also, as much as I think the MNC game just begs the fallacy of in season poling for another game, the SEC has certainly handled it's business when it has had the chance.

Last couple of seasons I'd put B12 #2, last decade I'd put the Pac 10 #2.

It's just the gap to the #2 conference isn't as wide as folks think it is, particularly if you adjust (which is a really hard thing to do) for conferences that have only 10 teams and play a balanced in conference schedule.

For example, the Alabama team I saw last season, imo, would have lost a game or even two in the Pac 10 and I think mid tier SEC teams would be mid tier Pac 10 teams as well, most "college football fans who know something about football" would scoff at that.

Course this helps if you gamble a bit because a lot of these "college football fans that know football" move the lines toward SEC teams early in the week before the big money comes in on Saturday.

Disclaimer: I don't think any of theis helps with the UGa-ASU line because I don't think anyone knows yet what kind of team Erickson has.