Who can guess the pick number and team Foles will go to?

[Winger]

Used the death stick who throws like Tebow analogy whilst ripping Elway For taking him over Foles on the radio this am ... Couldn't hear the response as alas I was at my sons lax game on the phone with no radio.

[Reydituto]

Originally Posted by catgrad

Osweiler is much bigger AND faster. Those are things Foles can't improve on. I'd be weary of Foles as my QB....he's just too immobile. But I'm not a fan of Osweiler either...but his accuracy and decision making can improve.

Osweiler is TALLER, not bigger. Foles doesn't need to "improve" on being bigger either, that's silly, he's already much harder to bring down after contact than Osweiler as it is. Yes he's faster, but Foles has better pocket presence and is a much better decision maker than Osweiler. Running speed isn't in the Top 5 things that should be considered about QB prospects, and while it's a bonus, it's overrated once you're not a burner like RG3.

Like Osweiler, Foles will need to sit for a couple of years, maybe spot duty here and there, before any team could/should depend on him either as a starter or capable backup, but I'd be MUCH more wary of Osweiler as my QB, and I think Denver made a mistake by taking him, and taking him when Foles was still on the board.

Besides, Andy Reid is a better scout and developer of QBs than anyone in Denver, so Foles landed in a good spot.

Originally Posted by PieceOfMeat

Congrats to Nick! Wish him the best with a crappy team.

Eagles really aren't that crappy, they just didn't come together until it was too late in the season.

Originally Posted by Martavious22

The Eagles have done well recently developing QBs. I imagine that Foles will take a route similar to Kevin Kolb: sit behind the starter, learn, fill in and perform well, accumulate trade value, then end up elsewhere.

That's what I was thinking as soon as he was selected. Kafka is the current #2, Foles can hold the clipboard for a season, then supplant Kafka next year as the #2. He'll likely get PT this season and the next, considering how injury-prone Vick is.

Originally Posted by scumdevils86

yeah lotta guys being picked ahead of criner

23 to be exact.

Here are the WRs that definitely should have gone before Criner:

1.) Justin Blackmon - Of course.
2.) Michael Floyd - I think he's better than the scouts think, some of whom who don't believe he is a complete WR ...
3.) Kendall Wright - Home run threat that plays bigger than he is, absolutely.
4.) Ryan Broyles - Even with the ACL, should he recover (no reason to think otherwise) he's too productive and versatile to ignore, and would have been a 1st rounder pre-injury.
5.) Rueben Randle - If he ever learns to run routes, he has everything else to be a #1 WR IMO, enough athleticism and speed despite what scouts think.
6.) Alshon Jeffery - Think he is a steal in the 2nd round.
7.) Brian Quick - Not entirely convinced, but his combine measurables and production warrant some benefit of the doubt, just looks beastly in HLs
8.) Stephen Hill - Combine measurables, ypc average (27+) and recent GT pedigree (Megatron, D. Thomas) hard to ignore, but this is benefit of the doubt as much as anything considering his usage rate in GT's wishbone.

That's it.

No one taken in Rounds 3, 4 and 5 ahead of him should have been, except for MAYBE Mohamed Sanu, I'd at least listen to that argument. But A.J Jenkins? Are you kidding me? Total reach by SF. DeVier Posey, Nick Toon, Greg Childs, Keshawn Martin, Marvin Jones, are you FREAKING kidding me? Awful. I get the addiction to speed, I get the new love for slot guys like T.J Graham, T.Y. Hilton, Joe Adams, Chris Givens, Travis Benjamin, Jarius Wright, Devon Wylie and the search for the "next Wes Welker", but those should be 5th round guys, and they all went too early.

Heck, as a Dallas fan I like that they grabbed Danny Coale in the 5th, that made sense for Dallas, he's a gamer and a good potential WR3/4, but I was bummed too because Criner had fallen to them and would have been a great fit with more upside.

I get the concerns over Criner's speed, but as I've said repeatedly, when's the last time you saw him caught from behind? I get concerns over his separation ability, but he constantly beats the DBs to the ball and consistently catches the ball at its apex - basketball background helps there, in much the same way it helps Tony Gonzales and Antonio Gates. He'll need to improve his footwook, but contrary to what McShay and Dilfer suggest, it wasn't just Foles "throwing him open". Plus, he breaks tackles and generates YAC.

I don't think he's a #1 WR in the NFL, but neither are most of the guys drafted - Blackmon and Jeffery will, Floyd would be if he was on another team, and Randle and Quick have that potential, but it remains to be seen. Criner will be a very good #2 though with development, a valuable possession/red-zone guy, someone who can move the chains on 3rd down, and catch jump balls deep and in the end zone. Reminds me of Alvin Harper from the early '90's Dallas teams.

Sometimes though, it's more about the team you land with than the draft position, so in that respect, I think Criner with the Raiders is a great fit as far as opportunity goes, even if he is the anti-"Al Davis speed guy". After Heyward-Bey (who still has mediocre hands and route-running) and Denarius Moore (who I like next year), the Raiders have plenty of opportunity, haven't signed a FA WR and otherwise have no proven vets (Jacoby Ford and Louis Murphy can't stay on the field long enough and are at best WR4 anyway) to take it.

Originally Posted by Winger

And is a douche.

And throws the ball sidearm.

And makes terrible decisions.

And isn't a winner.

And is a gangly death stick mother****er.

And is a douche.

Can't wait to boo him next season.

Doucheyness is taken for granted considering where he went to school. The next 3 items are the big red flags for me.

Sucks, b/c like I said Denver is my AFC "mistress". BroncoFan better hope Manning can play out at least 3 years of his contract, which should buy Denver enough time to find another option

Originally Posted by Winger

My boys love Foles and I mean love him, would have been awesome to have him here in Denver.

But, something happened with Foles and Elway about a month ago. I posted to that effect here somewhere. I will likely get some time with Elway in mid-late June and I will definitely ask him what happened, and how he intends to correct Osweilers throwing motion (Tebow reminiscent btw). If he'll tell me I will come back and post it.

Agree with you on the Eagles. Has a good chance imo to be the #2 guy and when you're the #2 guy behind Vick you're going to play. Kinda wish he was going to a warmer weather team or a dome team however. He seems pumped, course what else is he going to say. Reid has some nice comments and the staff apparently really likes him.

I remain shocked that Oz and Wilson were taken before him and don't even get me started on Tannehill. Weeden I can handle. Beginning to think there's a specific route in the tree that he just can't throw ...

1.) What happened between Foles & Elway? Couldn't find that post.

2.) What route would that be - the one that Foles can't throw? He throws a good fade, good corner, good deep out, makes solid intermediate throws, I don't get it.

3.) Tannehill has BUST written all over him. He was picked higher than Marino was, and was picked higher than Gabbert was last year in JAX, and that was enough to kick Garrard to the curb last year. Don't see how he's not out there this season and getting killed, especially with a doofus owner like Stephen Ross.

Originally Posted by Zona Dave

I actually thought IMO-Best QB's in the draft were

Luck
RG III
Weeden (I think will be a very good pro)
Foles

I think you're (NFL teams) just hoping for Tannehill, Oz to do something they have never done before. Which is perform well.

I will laugh at Miami when they are drafting another QB in the first round in 2-3 years. Denver will ship OZ off after they realize he throws like Tebow, doesn't have the wheels, toughness or leadership like him. I thought these were huge mistakes they made.

That was my Top 4 ranking in order going into April. I actually have Wilson at #5, but saw him, like Cousins, Tannehill and Osweiler, as 3rd-day picks.

Originally Posted by Winger

Used the death stick who throws like Tebow analogy whilst ripping Elway For taking him over Foles on the radio this am ... Couldn't hear the response as alas I was at my sons lax game on the phone with no radio.

Do they know you as "Winger" there too?

[Winger]

Originally Posted by Reydituto

1.) What happened between Foles & Elway? Couldn't find that post.

2.) What route would that be - the one that Foles can't throw? He throws a good fade, good corner, good deep out, makes solid intermediate throws, I don't get it.

3.) Tannehill has BUST written all over him. He was picked higher than Marino was, and was picked higher than Gabbert was last year in JAX, and that was enough to kick Garrard to the curb last year. Don't see how he's not out there this season and getting killed, especially with a doofus owner like Stephen Ross.

Do they know you as "Winger" there too?

Nice post Rey.

From what I can gather, Criner dropped because of worries regarding what's in between his ears, and even if the talking heads knew that, they usually don't go there.

I don't know what happened w/Foles and Elway but I think something did (not an interpersonal thing). I doubt Elway would have chosen a QB as limited as Oz over Foles solely because of a long term personal relationship. Also interesting to note that the Donks weren't at Oz's pro day but were at Arizona's, course they worked out Oz afterwards privately and didn't (to the best of my knowledge) do so for Foles.

I don't know what route he can't throw, but it's one potential explanation for why he was drafted where he was after putting up the kinds of numbers he did for 2 3/4 seasons for a team as limited as Arizona was. I doubt lack of foot speed means much of anything to anyone so I am looking for something else.

I used the call in name of Sparky.

[kylecollins]

No other way to explain Denver than just plain dumb.

[HeHateMe]

[catgrad97]

Originally Posted by kylecollins

No other way to explain Denver than just plain dumb.

Every NFL GM has his blind spots when it comes to QB. The most glaring impediment to Foles' draft status IMHO was pocket awareness, and yet none of that has even been mentioned re: Nick being passed up by Denver--or any other team, for that matter.

The irony is that in their final meeting, Foles handled himself better in the pocket than Osweiler did. Still think it's going to take Nick time to get comfortable at making quick decisions outside of the hashmarks, and hopefully Philly will allow him that period of development.

Criner should have gone no later than end of the third round. Raiders got a steal and hopefully have a more respectful attitude towards skill player development in the post-Al Davis era.

[dc4azcats]

Originally Posted by HeHateMe

Thanks for posting that HHM - that was great and you certainly have to like Nick's chances of having a long career with how he handled himself.

Must spread rep before giving it to HMH again.

[dc4azcats]

Originally Posted by catgrad97

Every NFL GM has his blind spots when it comes to QB. The most glaring impediment to Foles' draft status IMHO was pocket awareness, and yet none of that has even been mentioned re: Nick being passed up by Denver--or any other team, for that matter.

The irony is that in their final meeting, Foles handled himself better in the pocket than Osweiler did. Still think it's going to take Nick time to get comfortable at making quick decisions outside of the hashmarks, and hopefully Philly will allow him that period of development.

Criner should have gone no later than end of the third round. Raiders got a steal and hopefully have a more respectful attitude towards skill player development in the post-Al Davis era.

Read some quotes from the Raider brass and they said the same things that folks here said and that's that they didn't look at his straight line speed as much as they looked at his ability to make plays.

"At the end of the day, really, what we went off of was, when we looked at the tape, what players jumped out at us that were productive, quality football players," Allen said.

"And I think every one of the guys that we were able to pick understood how to play the game, they were tough, they were smart, they were disciplined, they played the game with instincts. Those were the qualities we looked for in a football player.

"And then they've got to be above a certain line athletically, and all these guys were."

http://www.mercurynews.com/tim-kawak...high-character

Comments: In his final two seasons at Arizona, Criner caught 157 passes for 2,189 yards and 22 touchdowns. He presents a potential possession-type option with jump-and-catch red-zone skills. He has better field speed than 40-yard-dash speed.

http://www.mercurynews.com/raiders/ci_20504985

[BearDown89]

Nice, HHM. Good stuff from you as expected. Thanks for posting.

[BearDown89]

Originally Posted by Winger

I don't know what happened w/Foles and Elway but I think something did (not an interpersonal thing). I doubt Elway would have chosen a QB as limited as Oz over Foles solely because of a long term personal relationship. Also interesting to note that the Donks weren't at Oz's pro day but were at Arizona's, course they worked out Oz afterwards privately and didn't (to the best of my knowledge) do so for Foles.

http://kdvr.com/2012/04/27/new-bronc...hn-elways-son/

Hopefully not because his kid wanted him to.

[Winger]

Originally Posted by BearDown89

http://kdvr.com/2012/04/27/new-bronc...hn-elways-son/

Hopefully not because his kid wanted him to.

That's what I was getting at and it's what the radio guy countered with (joking I think).

One thing is for certain if Oz thinks "there are a lot of great quarterbacks in Denver" he's dumber than I thought, and he better be ready to play this season as he is it after Manning. I put his chances of being and NFL starter at 15-20%, we will see I guess.

[97cats]

he better be ready Sept 9th

[Winger]

Originally Posted by 97cats

he better be ready Sept 9th

If you run 9 in the box again he will be.

[97cats]

It was 10

[CatPhanatic]

Vince Young signs with the Buffalo Bills. Foles #2?