World Golf Championships-Accenture Match Play Championship

[Reydituto]

Dove Mountain is what Starr Pass wanted to be, only in a better location and not as ridiculously difficult. A move to any other course in S. Az would not be prudent.

[T-Bone]

I'm still waiting for a suggestion on which course other than Dove Mountain could host this event. I get that we're all in agreement about Tucson National, but what other option would suffice?

[Reydituto]

I agree T-Bone.

As far as challenge, Starr Pass, Arizona National and The Gallery come to mind, but the first two are in terrible locations for a big tournament, and none of those are "fan-friendly". Tucson National is fan-friendly, but like Irish said is too easy.

Remember when PGA tourneys were held at Randolph North? I remember when I was 8, attending with my father & uncle, following Andy Bean and Johnny Miller.

Dove Mountain as a venue will only get better IMO, and the saguaro forest is an impressive backdrop for many of the long-distance views.

[T-Bone]

The Gallery is a challenge for sure, but possibly too much so, and without a world class hotel right on the course.

Starr Pass, at least IMO, always struggled more because of location than because of difficulty. The JW helps in that regard now but it's still not in a scenic place and, in my experience, it might not be challenging enough on a pro level to accommodate a high end event like the WGC.

I think the same goes for Arizona National. One can only imagine how ridiculous it would be watching pros easily eagle the 18th there.

These are all just my opinions. My real beef is the idea that the WGC is somehow a worse event for the community than the Chrysler Classic. That belief is just ludicrous to me.

[Reydituto]

Agree on The Gallery, and agree on the idea that The Ritz makes the Dove Mountain venue all the better.

I remember when the Tucson Open was held at Starr Pass, and the last year it was held there, Mickelson won as an amateur with a score of -5. The runner-up was at -3, there were 2 more golfers at -1, and the rest of the field was E or over par. Plus, most of the tour regulars were complaining about the difficulty of the course and the unfairness of the layout, especially the tees. I think a tournament set-up there is plenty tough, as I don't think equipment tech in the last ~18-19 years has made that course much easier, even with the course renovations since then. The fairways are still narrow and difficult to keep shots from rolling into the rough. Many of the greens IIRC are postage stamp sized and undulating as well.

I think the problem with Starr Pass isn't the exact location itself - it's quite scenic once you're there - but what you have to pass through to get there. Not the safest neighborhoods in the Tucson area to be sure.

Agree on Az National (although I haven't golfed that course since it was "Raven at Sabino Springs"), and agree that the WGC is a tremendous upgrade over anything that preceded it, at least back until when the Tucson PGA stop was hosted by Dean Martin.

[Winger]

What I believe is happening: the Tour and Conquistadors are posturing with the Ritz people by mentioning a move to Tucson National.

National can't hold a PGA tournament anymore, you can't move enough tees far enough back. The pros would be hitting flip sand wedges into 1, 6-8 irons into 2 (a par 5 unless you change it), SW into 3, SW into 5, SW into 6, wedges into the par 5 8th, and you've got the stupidly positioned lakes on 9 and 10 making those holes debacles, though for 10 the longer hitters will be able to carry the water easily and will come into that green with 7-9 irons (also a par 5), 11 is a debacle of a hole/par 5, 13 would be 3 wood SW, 14 also SW, 15 is long enough at 600 yds but boring, 16 would be driver SW, and even 18 now would be driver 8-PW. You can move some of those tees back but not all of them. Add to it that it doesnt look like a desert course for TV, the greens and surrounds are boring/easy, the hotel isn't as nice, it's hard to get consistently tough rough anywhere in Tucson in Feb, and I think you're much better off fixing the commute and parking issues at Dove Mountain. Shoot when I played the state mid Am there in like 2000 (or something like that) I think 16 under won. Lastly, commuting to National was never easy, always required a park and a bus ride, could be no different at Dove Mountain if they do it right.

Star Pass is a **** layout, impossible to walk as a fan, is equally hard to get to for fans and also dated in design.

Arizona National is way too easy with no way to fix it. You have had college players shooting 10-12 under for single rounds there frequently since it's opening. If a pro has any confidence at all in his driver it's another SW-fest and you'd prolly have to play it as a par 69. And again its difficult to follow as a fan and commuting, parking, etc. would be no better as it's also far from town and you'd have to bus in from well off site and multiple locations.

I think the South course at the Gallery could work but I don't see why you go there instead of Dove Mountain, which remember was specifically designed by Nicklaus both for match play and spectator movement and viewing. Lastly I know for a fact that the Accenture folks like the Ritz, even with it's pimples, and I would imagine the players do too.

[T-Bone]

It just seems like the only argument against Dove Mountain is that the greens are tough to read and that's a minor issue that plagues pretty much every newer course. If BTD has another point, I'm not picking up on it.

The Conquistadors can only make their powerplay to a certain point - if they go too far in trying to squeeze money out of the event, they risk losing the event altogether.

[Irish27]

Looks like Dove Mountain wins.

The WGC-Accenture Match Play Championship and the Tucson Conquistadores had an easy decision to return to The Ritz-Carlton Golf Club, Dove Mountain in 2013.

The other option, Omni Tucson National, will be access-challenged through the '13 tournament with ongoing construction at the Overton/Magee/Shannon area. Plus, expansion of the Foothills Mall has made off-site parking options near Tucson National limited, perhaps worse than those on Dove Mountain.

I like the romantic notion of returning Tucson's pro golf event to Tucson National, if only because it's more walkable and fan-friendly.

But the Ritz is a knockout on TV, in what has become a five-day marketing campaign for Tucson tourism. It's a hike to get there, but it has a big-league feel. If the Conquistadores can keep the Match Play event through 2018 - negotiations are ongoing - much of it will be a reflection on the Ritz's reputation as a big-league host.

Read more: http://azstarnet.com/sports/greg-han...#ixzz1uKczz0sg