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Old 01-19-2012   #1
UMforever
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RR will do well here. UM fan perspective

I am a UM graduate and fan. I am obsessed with UM football and have digested pretty much everything RR related while he was there. I will be glad to give my take on RR and his staff. I do not have any insider info or anything like that. These are just my personal views.

The good:
1. RR offense is AMAZING( I am sure you know that). He is truly a master on that side of the ball. Good things are coming!
2. RR cares about his players a lot.
3. RR is great at identifying talent that fits his system.
4. RR and staff are good recruiters.
5. RR is very loyal to his staff
6. No team will work harder than a RR coached team. the workouts are crazy!

The bad:
1. RR has a big ego. Seriously it is bigger than Donald Trump's!
2. RR and his staff do not know any other system and can not/will not adjust to the players strengths. He can adjust HIS system a bit but outside of that they have no knowledge. This is a serious weakness.
3. RR does not value rivalries. This may change as he made a huge blunder of this at UM. he may have learned.
4. RR is very loyal to his staff( yes I know it is also listed in the good section!)

IMHO RR got a raw deal at UM. I am a bit embarrassed as an alumnus that they did not give him 4-5 years and by the fact that some people did not support him or give him a chance. He was completely changing the style of play at UM. The offense was close to unstoppable and I was very excited about the change from 3 yards and a cloud of dust. He also was left with sub par talent from the start. LLoyd Carr's recruiting passion had been gone for a few years prior to leaving. RR brought in some great talent in his short time at UM. Granted it is easier to recruit at UM them UA but he will get his share of top talent here.

RR biggest mistake at UM was micromanaging his D Coordinator and forcing the 3-3-5 defense on them. Not getting Casteel at that time turned out to be bad for his staff. Make no mistake Michigan's d was horrible every year he was there. I am talking last in the country bad. RR needs to stay out of the defensive game plan imho. Both his DC at UM had not worked in the 3-3-5 system and it is generally not a good d to use in the B10 where most of the lines are very physical. Also the fact that his DC were not allowed to bring in any of their guys or get rid of some of RR defensive coaches caused an issue. Some of RR defensive coaches at UM were very bad and needed to go. Things seem to be better now with their current defensive coaches. The fact that the P12 is not really known for defensive football will/should help minimize any deficiencies on D. Time will tell.

I truly wish RR was still a UM. Overall he is an amazing coach and a good person. I think with a few years, the right D coaches, and the support of everyone, he could have been a legend at UM. Of course losing does not go well in AA and his record at UM was a shock. He would still be the coach of UM if he had just won a few more games. I am very happy with our new coach, Brady Hoke though. he is top notch.

I never really followed UA football even though I have been in Tucson for 15 years. Like I said UM is my team. I can say I will follow UA a bit more now that RR is here. As long as UA gives him the time needed he will turn them into winners and I get them to their first Rose Bowl. I am excited for that!

If anyone has any questions I will be glad to answer them if I can.

Last edited by UMforever; 01-19-2012 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 01-19-2012   #2
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No one has a bigger ego than Donald Trump.

You'll be happy to hear that Gibson is coaching the secondary still.

/s

You'll actually be happy to hear that Gibson has a reduced role within the secondary.

Last edited by Martavious22; 01-19-2012 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 01-19-2012   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martavious22 View Post
No one has a bigger ego than Donald Trump.

You'll be happy to hear that Gibson is coaching the secondary still.

/s

You'll actually be happy to hear that Gibson has a reduced role within the secondary.
Well maybe his ego is not that big but it is large!

Tony Gibson should not be a D1 coach period. His role would need to be reduced to waterboy for me to be happy about him. Even then he would probably still do a poor job!
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Old 01-19-2012   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMforever View Post
I am a UM graduate and fan. I am obsessed with UM football and have digested pretty much everything RR related while he was there. I will be glad to give my take on RR and his staff. I do not have any insider info or anything like that. These are just my personal views.

The good:
1. RR offense is AMAZING( I am sure you know that). He is truly a master on that side of the ball. Good things are coming!
2. RR cares about his players a lot.
3. RR is great at identifying talent that fits his system.
4. RR and staff are good recruiters.
5. RR is very loyal to his staff
6. No team will work harder than a RR coached team. the workouts are crazy!

The bad:
1. RR has a big ego. Seriously it is bigger than Donald Trump's!
2. RR and his staff do not know any other system and can not/will not adjust to the players strengths. He can adjust HIS system a bit but outside of that they have no knowledge. This is a serious weakness.
3. RR does not value rivalries. This may change as he made a huge blunder of this at UM. he may have learned.
4. RR is very loyal to his staff( yes I know it is also listed in the good section!)

IMHO RR got a raw deal at UM. I am a bit embarrassed as an alumnus that they did not give him 4-5 years and by the fact that some people did not support him or give him a chance. He was completely changing the style of play at UM. The offense was close to unstoppable and I was very excited about the change from 3 yards and a cloud of dust. He also was left with sub par talent from the start. LLoyd Carr's recruiting passion had been gone for a few years prior to leaving. RR brought in some great talent in his short time at UM. Granted it is easier to recruit at UM them UA but he will get his share of top talent here.

RR biggest mistake at UM was micromanaging his D Coordinator and forcing the 3-3-5 defense on them. Not getting Casteel at that time turned out to be bad for his staff. Make no mistake Michigan's d was horrible every year he was there. I am talking last in the country bad. RR needs to stay out of the defensive game plan imho. Both his DC at UM had not worked in the 3-3-5 system and it is generally not a good d to use in the B10 where most of the lines are very physical. Also the fact that his DC were not allowed to bring in any of their guys or get rid of some of RR defensive coaches caused an issue. Some of RR defensive coaches at UM were very bad and needed to go. Things seem to be better now with their current defensive coaches. The fact that the P12 is not really known for defensive football will/should help minimize any deficiencies on D. Time will tell.

I truly wish RR was still a UM. Overall he is an amazing coach and a good person. I think with a few years, the right D coaches, and the support of everyone, he could have been a legend at UM. Of course losing does not go well in AA and his record at UM was a shock. He would still be the coach of UM if he had just won a few more games. I am very happy with our new coach, Brady Hoke though. he is top notch.

I never really followed UA football even though I have been in Tucson for 15 years. Like I said UM is my team. I can say I will follow UA a bit more now that RR is here. As long as UA gives him the time needed he will turn them into winners and I get them to their first Rose Bowl. I am excited for that!

If anyone has any questions I will be glad to answer them if I can.
Thanks for the fair and balanced post.... Much appreciated. It says a lot that you can objectively assess his weaknesses but still have such a high opinion of him overall.

I was not excited about this hire when it was announced but I am coming around. Your post indicated a number of things I have suspected, and re-in forces my beliefs that we need to be patient with this transition, but I have hope that there could be a bright light at the end of the tunnel.
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Old 01-19-2012   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMforever View Post
I am a UM graduate and fan. I am obsessed with UM football and have digested pretty much everything RR related while he was there. I will be glad to give my take on RR and his staff. I do not have any insider info or anything like that. These are just my personal views.

The good:
1. RR offense is AMAZING( I am sure you know that). He is truly a master on that side of the ball. Good things are coming!
2. RR cares about his players a lot.
3. RR is great at identifying talent that fits his system.
4. RR and staff are good recruiters.
5. RR is very loyal to his staff
6. No team will work harder than a RR coached team. the workouts are crazy!

The bad:
1. RR has a big ego. Seriously it is bigger than Donald Trump's!
2. RR and his staff do not know any other system and can not/will not adjust to the players strengths. He can adjust HIS system a bit but outside of that they have no knowledge. This is a serious weakness.
3. RR does not value rivalries. This may change as he made a huge blunder of this at UM. he may have learned.
4. RR is very loyal to his staff( yes I know it is also listed in the good section!)

IMHO RR got a raw deal at UM. I am a bit embarrassed as an alumnus that they did not give him 4-5 years and by the fact that some people did not support him or give him a chance. He was completely changing the style of play at UM. The offense was close to unstoppable and I was very excited about the change from 3 yards and a cloud of dust. He also was left with sub par talent from the start. LLoyd Carr's recruiting passion had been gone for a few years prior to leaving. RR brought in some great talent in his short time at UM. Granted it is easier to recruit at UM them UA but he will get his share of top talent here.

RR biggest mistake at UM was micromanaging his D Coordinator and forcing the 3-3-5 defense on them. Not getting Casteel at that time turned out to be bad for his staff. Make no mistake Michigan's d was horrible every year he was there. I am talking last in the country bad. RR needs to stay out of the defensive game plan imho. Both his DC at UM had not worked in the 3-3-5 system and it is generally not a good d to use in the B10 where most of the lines are very physical. Also the fact that his DC were not allowed to bring in any of their guys or get rid of some of RR defensive coaches caused an issue. Some of RR defensive coaches at UM were very bad and needed to go. Things seem to be better now with their current defensive coaches. The fact that the P12 is not really known for defensive football will/should help minimize any deficiencies on D. Time will tell.

I truly wish RR was still a UM. Overall he is an amazing coach and a good person. I think with a few years, the right D coaches, and the support of everyone, he could have been a legend at UM. Of course losing does not go well in AA and his record at UM was a shock. He would still be the coach of UM if he had just won a few more games. I am very happy with our new coach, Brady Hoke though. he is top notch.

I never really followed UA football even though I have been in Tucson for 15 years. Like I said UM is my team. I can say I will follow UA a bit more now that RR is here. As long as UA gives him the time needed he will turn them into winners and I get them to their first Rose Bowl. I am excited for that!

If anyone has any questions I will be glad to answer them if I can.
Why do you feel this way? What makes you think he would have gotten the right defensive coaches this past year. After all, you said he was very loyal to his coaches. Who would he have replaced? Would he all of sudden been hands off on the defensive side?
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Old 01-19-2012   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASKACAT View Post
Why do you feel this way? What makes you think he would have gotten the right defensive coaches this past year. After all, you said he was very loyal to his coaches. Who would he have replaced? Would he all of sudden been hands off on the defensive side?
RR had a few meetings with the athletic director prior to being terminated. The AD was really on the fence about keeping him. They addressed the D problem in depth(which I stated above). RR said he was aware of the problem and said he would clean house and stay out of the D more than he had. He really wanted to stay at UM and I believe him when he said that he would change. The AD did not. Again these are all my personal views.

Also due to attrition/injuries/LLoyd's weak recruiting/discipline losses he was ALWAYS playing with mostly true freshman/RS freshman on defense. 18-19 year old kids do not do well against 22-23 year old men in the B10.
Look at the UM's defense this year. Those players are finally getting to be upper classman and can physically compete now and it showed. Granted the new D coaches are very very good. I believe RR could have got some good D coaches given the chance. Also given the nature of the Spread the D only has to be servicable not necesarraly dominant.

I strongly feel coaches should get at a min 4-5 years before getting canned anywhere. The 5th year seniors played for CARR. RR never trully got all his players.
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Old 01-19-2012   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMforever View Post
RR had a few meetings with the athletic director prior to being terminated. The AD was really on the fence about keeping him. They addressed the D problem in depth(which I stated above). RR said he was aware of the problem and said he would clean house and stay out of the D more than he had. He really wanted to stay at UM and I believe him when he said that he would change. The AD did not. Again these are all my personal views.

Also due to attrition/injuries/LLoyd's weak recruiting/discipline losses he was ALWAYS playing with mostly true freshman/RS freshman on defense. 18-19 year old kids do not do well against 22-23 year old men in the B10.
Look at the UM's defense this year. Those players are finally getting to be upper classman and can physically compete now and it showed. Granted the new D coaches are very very good. I believe RR could have got some good D coaches given the chance. Also given the nature of the Spread the D only has to be servicable not necesarraly dominant.

I strongly feel coaches should get at a min 4-5 years before getting canned anywhere. The 5th year seniors played for CARR. RR never trully got all his players.
I wonder if he would of canned Gibson. I guess we will never know.
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Old 01-19-2012   #8
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Originally Posted by ALASKACAT View Post
I wonder if he would of canned Gibson. I guess we will never know.
LOL! you are right we will never know.

One thing I forgot to mention is the seniors played for 3 different D coordinators in 4 years. (this years UM 5th years seniors played for 4 diff D coordinators.)
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Old 01-19-2012   #9
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Tony Gibson should not be a D1 coach period. His role would need to be reduced to waterboy for me to be happy about him. Even then he would probably still do a poor job!
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Old 01-19-2012   #10
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UMforever - can you share why your opinion of Gibson is so low?
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Old 01-19-2012   #11
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I agree with a lot of what you minus 2 things that stand out.

1. He doesn't care about rivalries. That's based off of what he says in press conferences. Detroit media propaganda. The players say different.

2. The AD was on the fence about keeping him. I don't think that was the case at all. IMO he was hoping he'd resign when they met so he wouldn't have to pay the full buy out.

As far as Tony Gibson, I feel a lot better about him knowing they hired another secondary coach with a great reputation. I think people overlook how important Gibson's recruiting ability is to the staff. Personally I think recruiting ability is the most important attribute for position coaches. The coordinators are most responsible for maximizing the talent.
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Old 01-19-2012   #12
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What confuses me about RR's tenure at Michigan was that people act as though his teams weren't improving. That's simply not true. Michigan was getting better each season under RR as his recruits began to mature. It's really hard to rebuild a football program when you completely change philosophies. Did anyone think RR would be able to step in and implement his spread offense without some growing pains? By RR's third season, Denard Robinson was running wild all over the conference. It was the defense that needed to catch up. Still, Michigan finished with a winning record in year 3 under RR and then they fired him. I don't know how you justify giving a guy a five year deal and watch his teams improve all three years and then let him go.
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Old 01-19-2012   #13
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Given who ASU hired, who Rich hired and all the subtexts there, I'd guess the rivalry knock is pretty much out the window.

Last edited by Pop McKale; 01-19-2012 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 01-19-2012   #14
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Quote:
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UMforever - can you share why your opinion of Gibson is so low?
I second this question UMforever. We've been hearing about how bad Gibson is for a couple of months now, but I've yet to hear any objective technical analysis as to why Gibson is supposedly so incompetent.
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Old 01-19-2012   #15
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What confuses me about RR's tenure at Michigan was that people act as though his teams weren't improving. That's simply not true. Michigan was getting better each season under RR as his recruits began to mature. It's really hard to rebuild a football program when you completely change philosophies. Did anyone think RR would be able to step in and implement his spread offense without some growing pains? By RR's third season, Denard Robinson was running wild all over the conference. It was the defense that needed to catch up. Still, Michigan finished with a winning record in year 3 under RR and then they fired him. I don't know how you justify giving a guy a five year deal and watch his teams improve all three years and then let him go.
Preaching to the choir my man.
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