Fire Livengood!

[GarH]

I'm 100% behind firing one of the best ADs in the country and seeing if we can't get a mediocre one. Nothing makes more sense to me.

[Auercat]

Now why couldn't I think of that!

Wineknow's rants about Livengood, Lute, Mackovic and Likins are really beginning to bother me. I would not be surprised if he was rooting for Cal today!

Bearing Down on A Great AD

Auercat

[katmandu]

One of his messages said "Go Cal"

[azuncgirl]

I have to admit that many of the Livengood bashers are quite ignorant. I don't condone any of the things that Mackovic has done, and I don't want him around either, but I think that we need to be realistic about the situation. An athletic director cannot listen to every single negative thing that comes out of a fans mouth about their coaches, fans are fickle. I posted something when this site was first launched about whether Mac is considered on the "HOT SEAT" and all the replies I got were how we needed to give him more time and see how he recruits, etc. Anyway, all of the sudden all people can do is bash him and ask for him to be fired. An AD has to try and stand by his coaches, especially after only two years, and I don't think that Arizona can really afford another contract buyout. I am sure the program has lost so much money this year on ticket sales and concessions, not to mention the lack of television converage. I am living in Chapel Hill where last year at this time people were praising Coach John BUnting about his team, and now people are asking for his head, all because he is trying to coach a bunch of guys he probably never would have recruited. Athletics is much more complex than many of you believe, and many of you sound like the fickle fans you are. If you care so much about ARizona Athletics, you should be in the stands, not leaving at half time only to return when you have a winning season. You obviously know nothing about Livengood, because he definitely is one of the nation's premier AD's and that is why he has been selected as the Men's Basketball Committee's Chair for 2002-03. Please try to act like you give a **** about the program, because if you did you would never want them to lose a game for the sake of Mackovic. Those players remember every loss, and obviousy cared enough about the game of football this weekend, whether it was for Mackovic or themselves. All is good when you are winning. Take a look at yourself and determine whether you care about Arizona Athletics or about a winning season, because sadly enough they do not always go together. I attended every UNC basketball game last year and was disgusted with the empty stands at the Smith Center, only to have sellouts to every exhibition and scrimmage this year. IT IS DISGUSTING and I wanted to beleive that Arizona fans were different, but it definitely doesn't sound like it.

[Auercat]

Very well said. Fans do have a right to voice their opinions, but only true fans show up through thick and thin. You're right on the money.

Bearing Down on Another Salient Set of Points Regarding Livengood

Auercat

[WhassaMattaU]

I have no doubts both of you are sincere and truly wish the best for the program.

For discussion purposes, though, it might be useful to draw a few distinctions. The Athletic Director is a very high profile public servant. As such like others in similar circumstances, he needs to be prepared to earn public adulation when the job is well done. The Lynch Pavilion opening was a recent success, and Livengood's contributions and successes are out there and noted publicly for all to see.

Likewise, when the public servant is remiss, the public has every right to pose questions and to require answers. Last week the football program, one of the major charges of the AD's job was out of control. Pure and simple - it was out of control. The program was is total disarray for several days, and the university became a national object of ridicule.

The glaring problems in the football program should have been nipped in the bud long ago. Many people, including the media, knew what was going on for weeks, months even... and THEY WERE SILENT! Yes, those problems were glaring and I cannot accept your underlying premise that the the responsibility lies solely behind John Mackovic's door.

Be all of that as it may, I'll hasten to add that it now appears that the situation was escalated and deliberately exacerbated by some outside forces eager to exploit the situation and to settle some old scores with the athletic department administration. Quite a few "strategy" sessions were held off campus, and players were not the only ones present. Some of the dissident players were used by others, both from within the athletic offices and from outside the university.

Yes, Mack Agonistes had his problems. Some of the assistant coaches were aggrieved. A number of the holdover players were in a lather over some wrongs.

I can assure you without equivocation that the evil brew which led to last week's debacle last week was a festering sore which was widely known for many months.

Yes, we can forgive all the principles in the drama - the coaches, players and Livengood too. But nobody should be deluded into thinking that there will be no consequences to more than a few of the principals involved. Count on it.

However, as an alum, I hope the university will carefully assess all factors which led to this disastrous situation and take steps to assure that it won't happen again.

Earlier in this post I alluded to some outside forces which actively influenced events. No, it was no grand conspiracy, really, or a conspiracy at all. What happened was a confluence of forces with disparate interests, which mixed into an evil brew in which there were no real winners. Those outside interlopers who seized the moment and surrepticiously interfered need to be publicly identified and fingered for the cowards they really are. I hope they're exposed in due course.

Many, including a few high profile names in the Tucson media were well aware of what was occurring behind the scenes. They know some of the actors in the drama who the public is not aware of. Let's hope they'll dig out the facts and and report their findings.

We need a full airing of the facts so that a cleansing will take place and in order to enable everyone, players coaches , staff alums, and all those who care for the university, to move on.

[WhassaMattaU]

Please do not consider or construe my post above to aid, abet or give substance in any way to Quencher-Wineknow's crusade.

His are an entirely different set of "issues" which I have no interest whatsoever in discussing.

I posted the above as a reply to Auercat and AZNCGirl's posts which immediately preceeded mine.

[azuncgirl]

If you are really responding to my post then you should actually address the issues that I talked about and not just a rampage about what the media truly knows.

[WhassaMattaU]

Originally posted by azuncgirl
If you are really responding to my post then you should actually address the issues that I talked about and not just a rampage about what the media truly knows.

That little solipsism really deserves no further reply, BUT...

Odd that the word "Livengood" in my earlier post somehow evaded your attention.

Now, should I choose to add something NEW to the discussion, that's my prerogative, and well within the boundaries set down by Cateye for the topic in the thread.

That's all for you. Buh-bye.

[timmy1973]

I would like to hear the responses of the posters who support the firing of livengood of the article below:

Olson speaks out in support of AD

By Maxx Wolfson
Arizona Daily Wildcat
Thursday November 21, 2002

Men’s basketball head coach Lute Olson expressed support for athletic director Jim Livengood last night, calling him one of the biggest reasons Arizona has had athletic success in recent years.

Olson’s endorsement came in response to a post-game question from KVOA sports reporter Pete Delgado about the coach’s future at the UA. Delgado had heard reports that Olson would not be around next season if Livengood left Arizona.

“I’m not ready to work for another AD," Olson said. “He is a great person and he is a hard worker. If you look at the success and the improvement of facilities that have occurred in his time here … we should be down on our knees thanking him, instead of listening to people that know nothing about what’s going on."

Livengood has come under fire recently in some local media for the way he dealt with the situation involving head football coach John Mackovic, who Livengood hired less than two years ago in hopes of turning around a football program that had failed to reach a bowl game in the previous two seasons.

“There have been some reports on the radar screen that irritate the heck out of me, when I see somebody criticize Jim Livengood and when I see what he has done for this program," Olson said. “When you talk to the head coaches of this program, they will tell you that Jim Livengood is working his tail off and doing everything he can to help."

Livengood, the former Washington State athletic director, is the driving force behind the $15 million Eddie Lynch Pavilion, which opened in September. During his tenure as AD, Arizona has ranked in the top 10 for nine consecutive years in the Sears Cup, which ranks the top athletic programs in the country.

In recent years, he has been a finalist for other athletic director jobs around the country. This past summer, he was the leading candidate to take over the University of Minnesota athletic program, before he withdrew his name from consideration.




Do you still support his firing at the cost of Losing Lute?

[Quencher]

I can't beleive how many people support a program that is obviously rotting from the inside, nor do I find them noble for supporting 'Arizona' while turning a blind eye to our players health, safety and emotional well-being. My point about Livengood is how incredibly bad his decision was for AZ football and it's future.

I admire AZgirls post about supporting UNC, but a fan revolt is different from just being fickle or apathetic. Arizona may have combination of all three going on.

Regardless, this brief honeymoon period isn't worth the strife it caused and isn't worth the comming years of medicrity (if we're lucky). I supported Mack becasue I beleived in what he was doing. If we were undefeated and the same player upheavel had occured, and the same information had gotten out, I'd be saying the same thing I am now; Livengood has a responsibility to get rid of Mack.

As for WMU - I'm speechless. I had no idea he could write complete paragraphs and make points and respond to others ideas without attacking people.

[timmy1973]

Qwencher-

So you would prefer that the U of A fire Livengood and Mackovic, and have Lute Olson quit.

So your agenda is to destroy the wildcat athletic dept?

Until there is a commitment by the university to provide top notch facilities, then the U of A will not compete on that level consistently. It does not matter who is the coach. Look at the stadium. How does it compare to the top schools facilities?

So bring in some new AD, a questionable coach, and ruin the basketball team.

Your true colors(Rust and Mustard) are starting to show.

So you would ruin the basketball tradition, to start over with the football program.

A new coach will not get results, there will then be a three way division. (tomeys,macks,newcoach)

Your rants are getting further out there, your starting to sound like a cult.

Must sacrifice athletic department becuase players that will be here for 1 year or less miss dick tomey.

you suggest cutting off your nose in spite of your face.

Its your choice, but the outcome won't be pretty.

The grass always looks greener on the other side.

[ghostwhitehorse]

Ch-ch-ch-changes!

[bhanson]

Originally Posted by ghostwhitehorse

Ch-ch-ch-changes!

we can beat them, just for one day. We can be heroes, just for one day